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Boating All Out

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:10:29 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I agree with the idea that we need to raise Revenue and I also agree,
chipping away at small programs is not going to do anything
significant to the deficit. Those are ideological crusades, not
deficit reductions. Deal with that in separate legislation if you need
to.
We need more revenue and we need to make big cuts in spending.
That means higher taxes, less DoD budget and doing something
significant to SS/Medicare. Those are the programs that eat up most of
the government revenue.

There are plenty of "small items" that add up.
On the nondefense discretionary discretionary side for 2010 there's
$660B to scalpel. Defense is $689B.
Knocking $200B total off those is trivial.
Except the crybabies will wail, the lobbyists will get in high gear and
the pols will be paid off.
As I said, the system is broken.
Good example is this newsgroup, where name-calling and opposing "the
other side" is deemed a substitute for common sense.

Defense is low fruit. We spend twice what it should cost to defend
this country.
SS/Medicare need to be bracketed up in age and needs to be means
tested. The reason it was successful for so many years is that they
always had plenty of workers paying for a few recipients, who weren't
really going to live much longer. When the boomers started hitting the
system you had a lot of recipients who will be collecting for 20-30
years and less people paying in. It is also ridiculous that rich
people like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates get SS.
Unfortunately then you would just have to admit SS is a welfare
program for old people and abandon the whole idea that it was ever
some kind of pension or insurance.

The Medicare solution is mostly clamping down on costs - Simpson agrees
with me on that. A Medicare tax rate bump will help.
The main problem is the socialist medical/insurance industries.
Drug companies, hospital companies, doctors, etc., all like to crow
about "free enterprise." But they're really already 60% socialists.
Touting "free enterprise" just allows them to stiff American rubes.
About 60% of medical costs in this country is funded by the taxpayer.
Other countries pay half for the same results.

You still don't get SS, because THERE IS NO SS DEFICIT.
SS is $2T in the black! SS taxpayers have already kicked it in.
No matter what your - right wing in this case - ideology, you can't get
around that. The SS Trust Fund is accounted for in black and white.
Everybody knows that.
If not they can go to the SS website to get educated.
That's a U.S. government debt like any other and has to come from
general revenue.
You can count on any change in SS being directed to extending SS Trust
Fund solvency. I don't see that accounted trust fund going away.
There is a limit to American voter stupidity.
Only a right winger would call a paid for old age pension system
"welfare."
All other 1st world countries call their version of SS
"old age pension."
You're welcome to call it what you want because we can freely speak
here. But most Americans who worked all their lives and now collect SS
will just say "**** you" if you tell them they're collecting welfare.
That's the difference between ideology and the real world.
As far as I can see all the other 1st world countries pay richer
benefits than the U.S. system.
Some don't even bother with a separate income stream, but fund it from
general tax revenues.

[email protected]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 16:58:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:11:19 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

You still don't get SS, because THERE IS NO SS DEFICIT.
SS is $2T in the black! SS taxpayers have already kicked it in.
No matter what your - right wing in this case - ideology, you can't get
around that. The SS Trust Fund is accounted for in black and white.
Everybody knows that.
If not they can go to the SS website to get educated.
That's a U.S. government debt like any other and has to come from
general revenue.

That would be true if the government had not spent every dime of that
money. Right now the $2T that SS calls an asset, the treasury calls a
debt. We can't even cover 60% of what we spend with our revenue. How
in the hell will the government ever pay back those SS bonds?

Only a right winger would call a paid for old age pension system
"welfare."

When it becomes a means tested benefit, having no relation to what you
paid in, it is welfare.

All other 1st world countries call their version of SS
"old age pension."
You're welcome to call it what you want because we can freely speak
here. But most Americans who worked all their lives and now collect SS
will just say "**** you" if you tell them they're collecting welfare.

What are they going to say when the government simply taxes away their
whole benefit because they make too much money. They already tax 85%
of SS if you make more than $32k. Bear in mind your FICA money was
after tax money so that is already double taxation and you ain't seen
nothing yet.

According to you.. someone who apparently has trouble with the facts.

Harryk

wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 16:58:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:11:19 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

You still don't get SS, because THERE IS NO SS DEFICIT.
SS is $2T in the black! SS taxpayers have already kicked it in.
No matter what your - right wing in this case - ideology, you can't get
around that. The SS Trust Fund is accounted for in black and white.
Everybody knows that.
If not they can go to the SS website to get educated.
That's a U.S. government debt like any other and has to come from
general revenue.
That would be true if the government had not spent every dime of that
money. Right now the $2T that SS calls an asset, the treasury calls a
debt. We can't even cover 60% of what we spend with our revenue. How
in the hell will the government ever pay back those SS bonds?

Only a right winger would call a paid for old age pension system
"welfare."
When it becomes a means tested benefit, having no relation to what you
paid in, it is welfare.

All other 1st world countries call their version of SS
"old age pension."
You're welcome to call it what you want because we can freely speak
here. But most Americans who worked all their lives and now collect SS
will just say "**** you" if you tell them they're collecting welfare.
What are they going to say when the government simply taxes away their
whole benefit because they make too much money. They already tax 85%
of SS if you make more than $32k. Bear in mind your FICA money was
after tax money so that is already double taxation and you ain't seen
nothing yet.

According to you.. someone who apparently has trouble with the facts.

What's really sad is how our tax dollars are wasted, instead of doing
good for the citizens. We should be slashing the military budget and
hitting corporations that export jobs with very special taxes, and, if
they head offshore, levy taxes on the goods and services they want to
sell here.

A_boaterer

In article ,
says...

wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 16:58:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:11:19 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

You still don't get SS, because THERE IS NO SS DEFICIT.
SS is $2T in the black! SS taxpayers have already kicked it in.
No matter what your - right wing in this case - ideology, you can't get
around that. The SS Trust Fund is accounted for in black and white.
Everybody knows that.
If not they can go to the SS website to get educated.
That's a U.S. government debt like any other and has to come from
general revenue.
That would be true if the government had not spent every dime of that
money. Right now the $2T that SS calls an asset, the treasury calls a
debt. We can't even cover 60% of what we spend with our revenue. How
in the hell will the government ever pay back those SS bonds?

Only a right winger would call a paid for old age pension system
"welfare."
When it becomes a means tested benefit, having no relation to what you
paid in, it is welfare.

All other 1st world countries call their version of SS
"old age pension."
You're welcome to call it what you want because we can freely speak
here. But most Americans who worked all their lives and now collect SS
will just say "**** you" if you tell them they're collecting welfare.
What are they going to say when the government simply taxes away their
whole benefit because they make too much money. They already tax 85%
of SS if you make more than $32k. Bear in mind your FICA money was
after tax money so that is already double taxation and you ain't seen
nothing yet.

According to you.. someone who apparently has trouble with the facts.

What's really sad is how our tax dollars are wasted, instead of doing
good for the citizens. We should be slashing the military budget and
hitting corporations that export jobs with very special taxes, and, if
they head offshore, levy taxes on the goods and services they want to
sell here.

Are you saying that military budget is a waste?

BAR[_2_]

In article ,
says...
What's really sad is how our tax dollars are wasted, instead of doing
good for the citizens. We should be slashing the military budget and
hitting corporations that export jobs with very special taxes, and, if
they head offshore, levy taxes on the goods and services they want to
sell here.

Are you saying that military budget is a waste?

I guess there are no unions involved in making military hardware and
providing the military goods and services.

Harryk

BAR wrote:
In ,
says...
What's really sad is how our tax dollars are wasted, instead of doing
good for the citizens. We should be slashing the military budget and
hitting corporations that export jobs with very special taxes, and, if
they head offshore, levy taxes on the goods and services they want to
sell here.
Are you saying that military budget is a waste?

I guess there are no unions involved in making military hardware and
providing the military goods and services.

Look up the word "transition."

Why waste hundreds of billions of dollars on the military?

John H[_2_]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:41:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 09:36:48 -0400, A_boaterer wrote:

Are you saying that military budget is a waste?

Most of it. We spend more than the whole rest of the planet put
together.

I think the Chinese would like to see us cut it by about 90%.

Harryk

John H wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:41:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 09:36:48 -0400, wrote:

Are you saying that military budget is a waste?

Most of it. We spend more than the whole rest of the planet put
together.

I think the Chinese would like to see us cut it by about 90%.

We waste more than four times the amount the PRC wastes on military
spending. Our military budget by some estimates approaches $700 billion
a year, while the Chinese spend about $150 billion.

If we cut our military spending in half, we'd still be spending more
than twice what the PRC spends.

What a waste, for both countries.

Harryk

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:38:16 -0400, John
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:41:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 09:36:48 -0400, wrote:

Are you saying that military budget is a waste?

Most of it. We spend more than the whole rest of the planet put
together.
I think the Chinese would like to see us cut it by about 90%.

Keeping China, the Russians and any real "state" at bay is pretty
cheap. A few "boomers" can provide a credible deterrent to a nuclear
attack. We spend most of our money building things we will never use
like the F22 and having counter insurgent wars with guys in sandals.

DoD is a big jobs program, enriching the districts of powerful
congressmen and building products that they do not need to have a
market to sell. We build them, we maintain them for 20-30 years and
we throw them away, virtually unused.

Eisenhower tried to warn us ... but we ignored him.

That's pretty much it. We need to find ways to convert those defense
factories into plowshare factories. It doesn't matter what those
factories make, so long as they provide good jobs and the products are
needed and useful.

BAR[_2_]

In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:38:16 -0400, John
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:41:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 09:36:48 -0400, wrote:

Are you saying that military budget is a waste?

Most of it. We spend more than the whole rest of the planet put
together.
I think the Chinese would like to see us cut it by about 90%.

Keeping China, the Russians and any real "state" at bay is pretty
cheap. A few "boomers" can provide a credible deterrent to a nuclear
attack. We spend most of our money building things we will never use
like the F22 and having counter insurgent wars with guys in sandals.

DoD is a big jobs program, enriching the districts of powerful
congressmen and building products that they do not need to have a
market to sell. We build them, we maintain them for 20-30 years and
we throw them away, virtually unused.

Eisenhower tried to warn us ... but we ignored him.

That's pretty much it. We need to find ways to convert those defense
factories into plowshare factories. It doesn't matter what those
factories make, so long as they provide good jobs and the products are
needed and useful.

We need to stop turning food into fuel.

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