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Harryk

wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 23:16:00 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:22:01 -0700, wrote:

He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.
What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.

I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

Then there are all the other pressures we've placed on teachers in the
last 50 years. These days, teachers are expected to socialize kids,
teach them manners, not hurt their feelings, wipe their noses, and deal
with substance abuse and a plethora of other issues that should be the
responsibility of the parents of the kids.

My father had two rules in the household that had to be obeyed: respect
your mother at all times and don't ever talk back to your teachers or
misbehave in school. I wonder how many kids have those rules impressed
upon them these days.

We weren't angels in school, but the sort of mischief we got into was
pretty innocent compared to what I see these days. Our sole security
officer at the high school wasn't worried about kids with guns or knives
or kids on serious drugs. His biggest issue was the kids who left the
campus and school property at lunchtime to run down to the nearby
Italian deli and get a lunch more to their liking than what was being
served in the cafeteria. It didn't help his cause when he chased us back
to school and then lingered to order and pickup a cold cut sub
at the deli.

I recall one time some kid brought a knife to school. He was permanently
expelled.

L G[_31_]

Harryk wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 23:16:00 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:22:01 -0700, wrote:

He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.
What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.

I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

Then there are all the other pressures we've placed on teachers in the
last 50 years. These days, teachers are expected to socialize kids,
teach them manners, not hurt their feelings, wipe their noses, and
deal with substance abuse and a plethora of other issues that should
be the responsibility of the parents of the kids.

My father had two rules in the household that had to be obeyed:
respect your mother at all times and don't ever talk back to your
teachers or misbehave in school. I wonder how many kids have those
rules impressed upon them these days.

We weren't angels in school, but the sort of mischief we got into was
pretty innocent compared to what I see these days. Our sole security
officer at the high school wasn't worried about kids with guns or
knives or kids on serious drugs. His biggest issue was the kids who
left the campus and school property at lunchtime to run down to the
nearby Italian deli and get a lunch more to their liking than what was
being served in the cafeteria. It didn't help his cause when he chased
us back to school and then lingered to order and pickup a cold cut sub
at the deli.

I recall one time some kid brought a knife to school. He was
permanently expelled.

"My father"....

Too bad you didn't learn enough from him so you own children wouldn't
disown you.

Harryk

wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400,
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think.
Regurgitating canned information is not thinking.

Ernie

On 3/18/2011 2:39 PM, Harryk wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400,
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think.
Regurgitating canned information is not thinking.

What a small mind you have. Problems can be presented on tests that
require thinking to arrive at a correct answer.

John H[_2_]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:56:22 -0400, Ernie wrote:

On 3/18/2011 2:39 PM, Harryk wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400,
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think.
Regurgitating canned information is not thinking.

What a small mind you have. Problems can be presented on tests that
require thinking to arrive at a correct answer.

You must remember that Harry scored 1600 on his SAT, and he did so without
thinking.

Now, you should take back what you said about his mind.

Ernie

On 3/18/2011 3:12 PM, John H wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:56:22 -0400, wrote:

On 3/18/2011 2:39 PM, Harryk wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400,
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think.
Regurgitating canned information is not thinking.

What a small mind you have. Problems can be presented on tests that
require thinking to arrive at a correct answer.

You must remember that Harry scored 1600 on his SAT, and he did so without
thinking.

Now, you should take back what you said about his mind.

What mind? Oh, you must be talking about the cesspool atop his shoulders.

HarryisPaul

In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400,
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think.
Regurgitating canned information is not thinking.

Then why did you tell us that your mom made you take "practice tests" at
home?

[email protected]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:22:52 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:39:39 -0400, Harryk
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400,
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think.
Regurgitating canned information is not thinking.

Nobody has ever convinced me the public school system ever helped kids
"think".
They simply indoctrinate using a system of vertical integration where
there is very little opportunity for any new thoughts. The people in
the administration assure the people coming up think exactly like they
do and that perpetuates itself as they continue moving up through a
very narrow pipe.

K12 is mostly memorizing anyway.

Totally disagree... A well-rounded education K-12 does exactly that.
It teaches and inspires kids to go further.

John H[_2_]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:35:46 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400, Harryk
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

How nice to see someone who understands 'standardized testing'.

[email protected]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:35:46 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400, Harryk
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.

One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

Learning how to think critically is the most important type of
education. If that can be demonstrated in a standardized test, then
I'm all for it. I don't think it can very easily.

Of course, you understand that critical thinking requires a broad
liberal arts education...

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