On Mar 11, 4:37*pm, Gene wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:24:40 -0500, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:57:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:44:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:17:00 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

That was based on the wild assertion that 3 million people would ride
on it. That is what the Acela gets, with 50 times the number of people
within 50 miles of the stations.

3 million was a low-ball..... Acela doesn't serve Mickey World....

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar...rt-high-speed-....

That is a bogus number. Are you really saying the meager populations
of Tampa and Orlando would match the ridership of a train between
Washington DC, Philadelphia, New York metro and Boston?

Who would fly to Tampa to take a train to Orlando when Orlando has a
nicer airport with lower landing fees (cheaper tickets)

That is particularly true when you figure out it only takes about an
hour to an hour and a half to drive it. You are not going to be able
to do much in either town without a car anyway.
If these cities want a commuter rail line, let them build it but don't
confuse that with a cross state train line that will run empty most of
the time.

Landing fees don't tell the whole story. It is *considerably* cheaper
to fly to Tampa rather than Orlando and hotels in Tampa are about half
the price of Orlando.

But who wants to stay in Tampa to take a vacation in Orlando?

Not me.

On 3/11/11 4:48 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:34:20 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/11/11 4:13 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:51:10 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/11/11 3:43 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:17:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:52:36 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:44:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:17:00 -0500,
wrote:

I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

That was based on the wild assertion that 3 million people would ride
on it. That is what the Acela gets, with 50 times the number of people
within 50 miles of the stations.

Don't know much about the project, but it seems like a bad time to cut
jobs.

There are other places you can employ people, doing something that is
not creating a black hole that swallows up money forever.

I wrote this before but if Tampa and Orlando really just want a
commuter rail line to take the load off of I-4 (where most of these
riders will really come from), tell us that is what you want and let
it stand on it's own merits. Then you don't need to build the other 50
miles out across cow country where I-4 is not that busy.
They still have not told us who really needs to get between downtown
Tampa and the Orlando airport. (where this would run)

In good economic times, I would agree that projects should "stand on
their own" financially and without gov't backing. But these are not
good times, and it seems to me that most anything that creates or
preserves jobs right now is better than continued unemployment and all
the attendant consequences.

So what you are suggesting is the "shovel ready" jobs were not enough?
We don't need another "big dig" which only kept workers from working on
profitable and sustainable projects and put billions in the pockets of
the labor unions and politicians in and around Mass...


Please explain, Mr. Dumber than Dog****, how the big dig project put
"billions" in the pockets of labor unions and politicians. Be specific.

That is easy Harry. All the work was done by union workers and most of
the political contributions to the democrats who pushed for this
boondoggle came from unions.
The big dig was supposed to cost 2.8 billion. It ended up costing
almost ten times that.
This is why Scott was leery of taking the money from DC then being on
the hook for the over runs and maintaining a losing train system
forever.

I'm sorry, but you haven't offered an explanation of how those
"billions" allegedly got into the pockets of the unions and politicians.
Certainly not from dues payments from union members. Are you insinuating
there were payoffs? Got evidence that these alleged payoffs, if any,
amounted to billions?

If union dues were $100 a man/woman a month, 1000 workers would pay $1.2
million a year in dues. 10,000 workers would pay $12 million a year. 10
years of that would be $120 million.

And those dues dollars are accounted for, to the penny.

Next?

I didn't say billions (that was Tosk) but it is a lot of millions
approaching a billion..
Do you think there only 1000 workers there? By the time you figure in
all the suppliers and truckers to get things there I bet it is more
like 50,000-100,000. There is nothing that keeps the unions from using
dues money from other jobs to fund the contributions either.

The bribes, perks and other payments are by nature undocumented.
To make you feel better, I would point out folks like Bechtel got
their taste too.


Snotty said the unions pulled out billions. That was a bull**** claim.
I am only commenting on his false claim of union corruption. He's full
of ****, as usual.

In article ,
says...

On 3/11/11 3:43 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:17:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:52:36 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:44:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:17:00 -0500,
wrote:

I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

That was based on the wild assertion that 3 million people would ride
on it. That is what the Acela gets, with 50 times the number of people
within 50 miles of the stations.

Don't know much about the project, but it seems like a bad time to cut
jobs.

There are other places you can employ people, doing something that is
not creating a black hole that swallows up money forever.

I wrote this before but if Tampa and Orlando really just want a
commuter rail line to take the load off of I-4 (where most of these
riders will really come from), tell us that is what you want and let
it stand on it's own merits. Then you don't need to build the other 50
miles out across cow country where I-4 is not that busy.
They still have not told us who really needs to get between downtown
Tampa and the Orlando airport. (where this would run)

In good economic times, I would agree that projects should "stand on
their own" financially and without gov't backing. But these are not
good times, and it seems to me that most anything that creates or
preserves jobs right now is better than continued unemployment and all
the attendant consequences.

So what you are suggesting is the "shovel ready" jobs were not enough?
We don't need another "big dig" which only kept workers from working on
profitable and sustainable projects and put billions in the pockets of
the labor unions and politicians in and around Mass...


Please explain, Mr. Dumber than Dog****, how the big dig project put
"billions" in the pockets of labor unions and politicians. Be specific.

If I wanted to answer the questions of a mindless 4 year old, I would
call you on the phone. Do your own homework..

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:51:10 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

On 3/11/11 3:43 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:17:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:52:36 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:44:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:17:00 -0500,
wrote:

I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

That was based on the wild assertion that 3 million people would ride
on it. That is what the Acela gets, with 50 times the number of people
within 50 miles of the stations.

Don't know much about the project, but it seems like a bad time to cut
jobs.

There are other places you can employ people, doing something that is
not creating a black hole that swallows up money forever.

I wrote this before but if Tampa and Orlando really just want a
commuter rail line to take the load off of I-4 (where most of these
riders will really come from), tell us that is what you want and let
it stand on it's own merits. Then you don't need to build the other 50
miles out across cow country where I-4 is not that busy.
They still have not told us who really needs to get between downtown
Tampa and the Orlando airport. (where this would run)

In good economic times, I would agree that projects should "stand on
their own" financially and without gov't backing. But these are not
good times, and it seems to me that most anything that creates or
preserves jobs right now is better than continued unemployment and all
the attendant consequences.

So what you are suggesting is the "shovel ready" jobs were not enough?
We don't need another "big dig" which only kept workers from working on
profitable and sustainable projects and put billions in the pockets of
the labor unions and politicians in and around Mass...


Please explain, Mr. Dumber than Dog****, how the big dig project put
"billions" in the pockets of labor unions and politicians. Be specific.

That is easy Harry. All the work was done by union workers and most of
the political contributions to the democrats who pushed for this
boondoggle came from unions.
The big dig was supposed to cost 2.8 billion. It ended up costing
almost ten times that.
This is why Scott was leery of taking the money from DC then being on
the hook for the over runs and maintaining a losing train system
forever.

Thank you Greg. I still doubt the likes of Harry or Plum will be able to
admit this is a payoff, nothing more...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:48:54 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:34:20 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

On 3/11/11 4:13 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:51:10 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/11/11 3:43 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:17:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:52:36 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:44:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:17:00 -0500,
wrote:

I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

That was based on the wild assertion that 3 million people would ride
on it. That is what the Acela gets, with 50 times the number of people
within 50 miles of the stations.

Don't know much about the project, but it seems like a bad time to cut
jobs.

There are other places you can employ people, doing something that is
not creating a black hole that swallows up money forever.

I wrote this before but if Tampa and Orlando really just want a
commuter rail line to take the load off of I-4 (where most of these
riders will really come from), tell us that is what you want and let
it stand on it's own merits. Then you don't need to build the other 50
miles out across cow country where I-4 is not that busy.
They still have not told us who really needs to get between downtown
Tampa and the Orlando airport. (where this would run)

In good economic times, I would agree that projects should "stand on
their own" financially and without gov't backing. But these are not
good times, and it seems to me that most anything that creates or
preserves jobs right now is better than continued unemployment and all
the attendant consequences.

So what you are suggesting is the "shovel ready" jobs were not enough?
We don't need another "big dig" which only kept workers from working on
profitable and sustainable projects and put billions in the pockets of
the labor unions and politicians in and around Mass...


Please explain, Mr. Dumber than Dog****, how the big dig project put
"billions" in the pockets of labor unions and politicians. Be specific.

That is easy Harry. All the work was done by union workers and most of
the political contributions to the democrats who pushed for this
boondoggle came from unions.
The big dig was supposed to cost 2.8 billion. It ended up costing
almost ten times that.
This is why Scott was leery of taking the money from DC then being on
the hook for the over runs and maintaining a losing train system
forever.

I'm sorry, but you haven't offered an explanation of how those
"billions" allegedly got into the pockets of the unions and politicians.
Certainly not from dues payments from union members. Are you insinuating
there were payoffs? Got evidence that these alleged payoffs, if any,
amounted to billions?

If union dues were $100 a man/woman a month, 1000 workers would pay $1.2
million a year in dues. 10,000 workers would pay $12 million a year. 10
years of that would be $120 million.

And those dues dollars are accounted for, to the penny.

Next?

I didn't say billions (that was Tosk) but it is a lot of millions
approaching a billion..
Do you think there only 1000 workers there? By the time you figure in
all the suppliers and truckers to get things there I bet it is more
like 50,000-100,000. There is nothing that keeps the unions from using
dues money from other jobs to fund the contributions either.

The bribes, perks and other payments are by nature undocumented.
To make you feel better, I would point out folks like Bechtel got
their taste too.

Sounds like the typical anti-union, big business union busting bs we
expect from right-wing nuts who think profit is king no matter the
consequences.

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:06:35 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:38:57 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:17:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:52:36 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:44:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:17:00 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

That was based on the wild assertion that 3 million people would ride
on it. That is what the Acela gets, with 50 times the number of people
within 50 miles of the stations.

Don't know much about the project, but it seems like a bad time to cut
jobs.

There are other places you can employ people, doing something that is
not creating a black hole that swallows up money forever.

I wrote this before but if Tampa and Orlando really just want a
commuter rail line to take the load off of I-4 (where most of these
riders will really come from), tell us that is what you want and let
it stand on it's own merits. Then you don't need to build the other 50
miles out across cow country where I-4 is not that busy.
They still have not told us who really needs to get between downtown
Tampa and the Orlando airport. (where this would run)

In good economic times, I would agree that projects should "stand on
their own" financially and without gov't backing. But these are not
good times, and it seems to me that most anything that creates or
preserves jobs right now is better than continued unemployment and all
the attendant consequences.

If we are going to create jobs, why not create them here? Rail like
this will be using chinese rails and European trains. All that will
actually be done here is the digging.

There are a lot better ways to spend a couple billion dollars. Why not
spend that money fixing the roads we have? Alabama just gave some
family a million dollars because a chunk of loose pavement came up and
killed a woman. We have bridges all over the country ready to fall
down. These are things that will pay us back immediately.

Maybe there are, but I don't see your governor proposing any. Of
course, this would require fed help, which you're against. FYI, lots
of stim jobs are ongoing.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:24:40 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:57:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:44:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:17:00 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

That was based on the wild assertion that 3 million people would ride
on it. That is what the Acela gets, with 50 times the number of people
within 50 miles of the stations.

3 million was a low-ball..... Acela doesn't serve Mickey World....

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar...-made-more-mo/

That is a bogus number. Are you really saying the meager populations
of Tampa and Orlando would match the ridership of a train between
Washington DC, Philadelphia, New York metro and Boston?

Who would fly to Tampa to take a train to Orlando when Orlando has a
nicer airport with lower landing fees (cheaper tickets)

That is particularly true when you figure out it only takes about an
hour to an hour and a half to drive it. You are not going to be able
to do much in either town without a car anyway.
If these cities want a commuter rail line, let them build it but don't
confuse that with a cross state train line that will run empty most of
the time.

Landing fees don't tell the whole story. It is *considerably* cheaper
to fly to Tampa rather than Orlando and hotels in Tampa are about half
the price of Orlando.

Yeah, but who the hell wants to fly to Tampa? There is nothing there.

On 11/03/2011 10:30 AM, Harryk wrote:
I_am_Tosk wrote:
In article16adndi6U4yQxOfQnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...
I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

There's the speculation, then there's the reality. The line running from
NYC to Boston to DC, especially here, is empty. It's a pain in the ass
for the state and does nothing for us but cost us money, and cause
traffic tie ups. The area effected here has a 500% higher population
ratio than the area in Florida, and still makes no money, period...

Your cherry picked reports don't mean **** if the numbers going in are
faked, look at the Obama care bill, double accounting, etc... Look at
the facts on the ground. Rail doesn't work here in the us. We like the
freedom of a car, period. Especially on vacation which is the crowd they
are counting on.


I don't recall asking for or needing the opinion of an uneducated,
inexperienced, unemployed, unemployable, mental and physical midget, and
Faux News moron like you. You're free to comment, of course, on any
subject about which you know nothing.

Then how conme you replied?

On 3/11/11 4:56 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/11/11 3:43 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:17:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:52:36 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:44:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:17:00 -0500,
wrote:

I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

That was based on the wild assertion that 3 million people would ride
on it. That is what the Acela gets, with 50 times the number of people
within 50 miles of the stations.

Don't know much about the project, but it seems like a bad time to cut
jobs.

There are other places you can employ people, doing something that is
not creating a black hole that swallows up money forever.

I wrote this before but if Tampa and Orlando really just want a
commuter rail line to take the load off of I-4 (where most of these
riders will really come from), tell us that is what you want and let
it stand on it's own merits. Then you don't need to build the other 50
miles out across cow country where I-4 is not that busy.
They still have not told us who really needs to get between downtown
Tampa and the Orlando airport. (where this would run)

In good economic times, I would agree that projects should "stand on
their own" financially and without gov't backing. But these are not
good times, and it seems to me that most anything that creates or
preserves jobs right now is better than continued unemployment and all
the attendant consequences.

So what you are suggesting is the "shovel ready" jobs were not enough?
We don't need another "big dig" which only kept workers from working on
profitable and sustainable projects and put billions in the pockets of
the labor unions and politicians in and around Mass...


Please explain, Mr. Dumber than Dog****, how the big dig project put
"billions" in the pockets of labor unions and politicians. Be specific.

If I wanted to answer the questions of a mindless 4 year old, I would
call you on the phone. Do your own homework..

In other words, you made a bull**** claim. Again.

Harryk wrote:
I_am_Tosk wrote:
In article16adndi6U4yQxOfQnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...
I hate to say it because I do love the state, but
Florida seems to elect one idiot after another for governor.

"Three weeks after Gov. Rick Scott put the brakes on high-speed rail,
the Florida Department of Transportation on Wednesday released a study
showing the line connecting Tampa to Orlando would have had a $10.2
million operating surplus in 2015, its first year of operation.

The study showed the line would have had a $28.6 million surplus in its
10th year."

I'd guess Governor Scott nixed the project because he couldn't figure
out a way to personally benefit from it.

There's the speculation, then there's the reality. The line running from
NYC to Boston to DC, especially here, is empty. It's a pain in the ass
for the state and does nothing for us but cost us money, and cause
traffic tie ups. The area effected here has a 500% higher population
ratio than the area in Florida, and still makes no money, period...

Your cherry picked reports don't mean **** if the numbers going in are
faked, look at the Obama care bill, double accounting, etc... Look at
the facts on the ground. Rail doesn't work here in the us. We like the
freedom of a car, period. Especially on vacation which is the crowd they
are counting on.


I don't recall asking for or needing the opinion of an uneducated,
inexperienced, unemployed, unemployable, mental and physical midget,
and Faux News moron like you. You're free to comment, of course, on
any subject about which you know nothing.


So you are really saying you have no ****ing idea what the truth is so
your answer is to attack and divert.