In article ,
says...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:15:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:03:02 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:43:57 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:49:55 -0700, wrote:

Despite your insistence that this "topic" is about Florida, it isn't.

Can you read? The word Florida is in the topic title. You are the one
who started talking about a dozen other states.

Life and reality are bigger than Florida. Please show me a topic that
stayed put.


Just because you wander off, we don't have to follow you.

Yet, you're quite happy to participate. Don't want to talk about
Republicans being hypocrites... then don't.

In this case Scott is not hypocritical. He ran on not wanting the
money and when they tried to cram it down his throat he refused it and
went to court to get the feds to get off his back.

Ok. I can settle for him just having a criminal background.


OK so you agree the train thing does not have anything to do with your
hypocrisy rant and you want to change the subject

I agree that Scott is more of a criminal in this specific instance
than a hypocrite.

OK. I agree Scott is a crook That is why I didn't vote for him
Happy now.

Of course!

I still think he made the right choice on the train

So, the broken clock is accurate twice a day?


... and if the topic was what time is it, at those two times it would
be relevant.

We were talking about the train and Scott made the right decision.

So, you're saying that Scott, a probable criminal and right wing
loony, was right about one thing? Ok.

He naver said anything about probable criminal, he never said anything
about looney... Do you ever post honestly or is each and every post
destined to have lies and insults in it?

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:


He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.

What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.


http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2011...ion-merit-pay-
bill-mixed-ar-1594330/

"Fifty percent of a teacher's evaluation will depend on how much
progress their students have made on the Florida Comprehensive
Assessment Test or other exams over a three-year period."

What this means is good teachers at low-income student schools
will get screwed on pay.
So the low-income student schools will end up with the poorest teachers.
Real smart.


I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

Success of students to achieve their potential depends mostly on their
parents.
Initially charter schools get good performance because guess what?
Involved parents are required to get kids in charter schools.
Most have a waiting list for admission.
Who is most responsible for getting the kids on the list?
Involved parents. That's what gets successful education for kids.
This whole deal about charter schools is pretty much misguided except
it can allow some kids to get into a better environment for learning.
That's good.
Doesn't help those whose parents don't get them into a charter school.
And way too many won't make that effort.
It mostly comes down to parents, not teachers or schools.





So much bull****... A good teacher can teach your kids in that 6 hours a
day, not count on the parents to do the work for the other 18... I am
sick and tired of folks trying to blame the Parents while they are at
work all day and the teachers have the kids right there a captive
audience.

On 3/18/2011 10:14 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,

Doesn't help those whose parents don't get them into a charter school.
And way too many won't make that effort.
It mostly comes down to parents, not teachers or schools.





Not all parents want their children to become characters, Tom.

Merit should be part of the equation in salary review. Why should the
slackers get paid the same as dedicated achievers. The Florida governor
is on the right track.

wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 23:16:00 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:22:01 -0700, wrote:



He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.
What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.

I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.



One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.

Then there are all the other pressures we've placed on teachers in the
last 50 years. These days, teachers are expected to socialize kids,
teach them manners, not hurt their feelings, wipe their noses, and deal
with substance abuse and a plethora of other issues that should be the
responsibility of the parents of the kids.

My father had two rules in the household that had to be obeyed: respect
your mother at all times and don't ever talk back to your teachers or
misbehave in school. I wonder how many kids have those rules impressed
upon them these days.

We weren't angels in school, but the sort of mischief we got into was
pretty innocent compared to what I see these days. Our sole security
officer at the high school wasn't worried about kids with guns or knives
or kids on serious drugs. His biggest issue was the kids who left the
campus and school property at lunchtime to run down to the nearby
Italian deli and get a lunch more to their liking than what was being
served in the cafeteria. It didn't help his cause when he chased us back
to school and then lingered to order and pickup a cold cut sub
at the deli.

I recall one time some kid brought a knife to school. He was permanently
expelled.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:27:15 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:


He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.

What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.


http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2011...ion-merit-pay-
bill-mixed-ar-1594330/

"Fifty percent of a teacher's evaluation will depend on how much
progress their students have made on the Florida Comprehensive
Assessment Test or other exams over a three-year period."

What this means is good teachers at low-income student schools
will get screwed on pay.
So the low-income student schools will end up with the poorest teachers.
Real smart.


I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

Success of students to achieve their potential depends mostly on their
parents.
Initially charter schools get good performance because guess what?
Involved parents are required to get kids in charter schools.
Most have a waiting list for admission.
Who is most responsible for getting the kids on the list?
Involved parents. That's what gets successful education for kids.
This whole deal about charter schools is pretty much misguided except
it can allow some kids to get into a better environment for learning.
That's good.
Doesn't help those whose parents don't get them into a charter school.
And way too many won't make that effort.
It mostly comes down to parents, not teachers or schools.





So much bull****... A good teacher can teach your kids in that 6 hours a
day, not count on the parents to do the work for the other 18... I am
sick and tired of folks trying to blame the Parents while they are at
work all day and the teachers have the kids right there a captive
audience.

That is not really true. Good parents will help kids with homework and
create a better learning experience at home.
If a kid lives in a crack house with a bunch of drop outs and
criminals, he is far more likely to be a crackhead, criminal, drop
out.

More likely I give you that, but a good teacher could reach out and let
that kid get the most out of that 6 hours a day they have him or her...
I just don't think this should be on the parents. If the schools spent
more time teaching the basics instead of some of the crap they do, the
kids could come out and learn. Make the kids write, with pencil and
paper, make them read, right there in class, out loud, like we did when
we were kids, we learned. Or at least a lot of us did... I saw a news
story on the text of one chapter taught in the NYC school system. It was
a whole chapter on police brutality and corruption. Yeah, have a lesson
on it, but a whole chapter, a whole month of the short school year? That
is a waste and does nothing but create a divide between these kids and
law and order. It certainly doesn't do anything to prepare them to come
out to "normal" society outside of the ghetto or in collage that's for
sure... Teach the kids, don't indoctrinate them and we will be just
fine...

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 09:14:17 -0500, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:


He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.

What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.


http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2011...ion-merit-pay-
bill-mixed-ar-1594330/

"Fifty percent of a teacher's evaluation will depend on how much
progress their students have made on the Florida Comprehensive
Assessment Test or other exams over a three-year period."

What this means is good teachers at low-income student schools
will get screwed on pay.
So the low-income student schools will end up with the poorest teachers.
Real smart.

Amen.


I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

Success of students to achieve their potential depends mostly on their
parents.
Initially charter schools get good performance because guess what?
Involved parents are required to get kids in charter schools.
Most have a waiting list for admission.
Who is most responsible for getting the kids on the list?
Involved parents. That's what gets successful education for kids.
This whole deal about charter schools is pretty much misguided except
it can allow some kids to get into a better environment for learning.
That's good.
Doesn't help those whose parents don't get them into a charter school.
And way too many won't make that effort.
It mostly comes down to parents, not teachers or schools.

Amen.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:27:15 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:


He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.

What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.


http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2011...ion-merit-pay-
bill-mixed-ar-1594330/

"Fifty percent of a teacher's evaluation will depend on how much
progress their students have made on the Florida Comprehensive
Assessment Test or other exams over a three-year period."

What this means is good teachers at low-income student schools
will get screwed on pay.
So the low-income student schools will end up with the poorest teachers.
Real smart.


I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

Success of students to achieve their potential depends mostly on their
parents.
Initially charter schools get good performance because guess what?
Involved parents are required to get kids in charter schools.
Most have a waiting list for admission.
Who is most responsible for getting the kids on the list?
Involved parents. That's what gets successful education for kids.
This whole deal about charter schools is pretty much misguided except
it can allow some kids to get into a better environment for learning.
That's good.
Doesn't help those whose parents don't get them into a charter school.
And way too many won't make that effort.
It mostly comes down to parents, not teachers or schools.





So much bull****... A good teacher can teach your kids in that 6 hours a
day, not count on the parents to do the work for the other 18... I am
sick and tired of folks trying to blame the Parents while they are at
work all day and the teachers have the kids right there a captive
audience.

And you've just shown how much you know about the classroom. Socrates, who was
considered a decent teacher, would have a hard time teaching a turnip.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:19:45 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:27:15 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:


He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.

What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.


http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2011...ion-merit-pay-
bill-mixed-ar-1594330/

"Fifty percent of a teacher's evaluation will depend on how much
progress their students have made on the Florida Comprehensive
Assessment Test or other exams over a three-year period."

What this means is good teachers at low-income student schools
will get screwed on pay.
So the low-income student schools will end up with the poorest teachers.
Real smart.


I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

Success of students to achieve their potential depends mostly on their
parents.
Initially charter schools get good performance because guess what?
Involved parents are required to get kids in charter schools.
Most have a waiting list for admission.
Who is most responsible for getting the kids on the list?
Involved parents. That's what gets successful education for kids.
This whole deal about charter schools is pretty much misguided except
it can allow some kids to get into a better environment for learning.
That's good.
Doesn't help those whose parents don't get them into a charter school.
And way too many won't make that effort.
It mostly comes down to parents, not teachers or schools.





So much bull****... A good teacher can teach your kids in that 6 hours a
day, not count on the parents to do the work for the other 18... I am
sick and tired of folks trying to blame the Parents while they are at
work all day and the teachers have the kids right there a captive
audience.

That is not really true. Good parents will help kids with homework and
create a better learning experience at home.
If a kid lives in a crack house with a bunch of drop outs and
criminals, he is far more likely to be a crackhead, criminal, drop
out.

More likely I give you that, but a good teacher could reach out and let
that kid get the most out of that 6 hours a day they have him or her...
I just don't think this should be on the parents. If the schools spent
more time teaching the basics instead of some of the crap they do, the
kids could come out and learn.

Now you're not talking 'teacher', you're talking 'school board' - the folks that
develop the curriculum.

Make the kids write, with pencil and
paper, make them read, right there in class, out loud, like we did when
we were kids, we learned. Or at least a lot of us did... I saw a news
story on the text of one chapter taught in the NYC school system. It was
a whole chapter on police brutality and corruption. Yeah, have a lesson
on it, but a whole chapter, a whole month of the short school year?

Again, you're talking curriculum, not what the teacher does.

That
is a waste and does nothing but create a divide between these kids and
law and order. It certainly doesn't do anything to prepare them to come
out to "normal" society outside of the ghetto or in collage that's for
sure... Teach the kids, don't indoctrinate them and we will be just
fine...

You just need to figure out who you're putting down. Obviously, you should be
writing to your local school board and attending some of their meetings.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:19:45 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:27:15 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote:


He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a
couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will
be happy with them.

What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me.


http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2011...ion-merit-pay-
bill-mixed-ar-1594330/

"Fifty percent of a teacher's evaluation will depend on how much
progress their students have made on the Florida Comprehensive
Assessment Test or other exams over a three-year period."

What this means is good teachers at low-income student schools
will get screwed on pay.
So the low-income student schools will end up with the poorest teachers.
Real smart.


I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers.
Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least
not so far.

Success of students to achieve their potential depends mostly on their
parents.
Initially charter schools get good performance because guess what?
Involved parents are required to get kids in charter schools.
Most have a waiting list for admission.
Who is most responsible for getting the kids on the list?
Involved parents. That's what gets successful education for kids.
This whole deal about charter schools is pretty much misguided except
it can allow some kids to get into a better environment for learning.
That's good.
Doesn't help those whose parents don't get them into a charter school.
And way too many won't make that effort.
It mostly comes down to parents, not teachers or schools.





So much bull****... A good teacher can teach your kids in that 6 hours a
day, not count on the parents to do the work for the other 18... I am
sick and tired of folks trying to blame the Parents while they are at
work all day and the teachers have the kids right there a captive
audience.

That is not really true. Good parents will help kids with homework and
create a better learning experience at home.
If a kid lives in a crack house with a bunch of drop outs and
criminals, he is far more likely to be a crackhead, criminal, drop
out.

More likely I give you that, but a good teacher could reach out and let
that kid get the most out of that 6 hours a day they have him or her...
I just don't think this should be on the parents. If the schools spent
more time teaching the basics instead of some of the crap they do, the
kids could come out and learn.

Now you're not talking 'teacher', you're talking 'school board' - the folks that
develop the curriculum.

Make the kids write, with pencil and
paper, make them read, right there in class, out loud, like we did when
we were kids, we learned. Or at least a lot of us did... I saw a news
story on the text of one chapter taught in the NYC school system. It was
a whole chapter on police brutality and corruption. Yeah, have a lesson
on it, but a whole chapter, a whole month of the short school year?

Again, you're talking curriculum, not what the teacher does.

That
is a waste and does nothing but create a divide between these kids and
law and order. It certainly doesn't do anything to prepare them to come
out to "normal" society outside of the ghetto or in collage that's for
sure... Teach the kids, don't indoctrinate them and we will be just
fine...

You just need to figure out who you're putting down. Obviously, you should be
writing to your local school board and attending some of their meetings.

Why, my school system isn't at risk.. The teachers here are happy and
well paid, and they really do teach the kids. I am talking about the
failing schools particularly in the inner cities..

wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400,
wrote:

I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids.
I believe it will take time to turn them around.

I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not
just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a
bad teacher.


One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results
of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether
the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the
tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning
anything significant or, just as important, how to think.


You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world
judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing
a test.

If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually
learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test.
We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool
of questions and they randomize the tests.

The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think.
Regurgitating canned information is not thinking.