On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:09:06 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

It is important to remember how health
insurance started: It was offered as a fringe benefit by employers
as an inducement to attract and retain good employees. Then it
morphed into an entittlement starting with Medicare/Medicaid.


That's not completely accurate...

Perhaps not every "i" is dotted but it's pretty close for a short two
sentence summary.

My point, confirmed by your article, is that this whole notion of
"health coverage" as an entitlement is a recent thing. The jury is
still out on whether or not this can be provided to everyone without
wrecking the US economy even more than it already is.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:09:06 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

It is important to remember how health
insurance started: It was offered as a fringe benefit by employers
as an inducement to attract and retain good employees. Then it
morphed into an entittlement starting with Medicare/Medicaid.


That's not completely accurate...

Perhaps not every "i" is dotted but it's pretty close for a short two
sentence summary.

My point, confirmed by your article, is that this whole notion of
"health coverage" as an entitlement is a recent thing. The jury is
still out on whether or not this can be provided to everyone without
wrecking the US economy even more than it already is.


It hasn't wrecked other countries' economies, so why would ours be
different. The same was said of women's suffrage. The same was said of civil
rights legislation. If we wait until the "jury is in" to try and make a
positive change, then we will surely suffer. People complain about
entitlements, as though the are terrible things. They aren't. Ask an average
senior if she's willing to give up her SS or Medicare (or for that matter
anyone even close to collecting it)... I think we both know what they'll
say.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:21:07 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

People complain about
entitlements, as though the are terrible things. They aren't. Ask an average
senior if she's willing to give up her SS or Medicare (or for that matter
anyone even close to collecting it)... I think we both know what they'll
say.

That's the problem with entitlements. Once they're out there, they
become a sacred right. For a variety of reasons US manufacturing has
become uncompetetive in the world market place. Increased
entitlements and the resulting higher tax rates can only make the
problem worse. A service based economy can only take you so far.
Sooner or later you have to make something or have enough foreign
exchange to purchase it elsewhere. Right now we are extending IOUs to
fund our imports but sooner or later those chips will be called in.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:21:07 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

People complain about
entitlements, as though the are terrible things. They aren't. Ask an
average
senior if she's willing to give up her SS or Medicare (or for that matter
anyone even close to collecting it)... I think we both know what they'll
say.

That's the problem with entitlements. Once they're out there, they
become a sacred right. For a variety of reasons US manufacturing has
become uncompetetive in the world market place. Increased
entitlements and the resulting higher tax rates can only make the
problem worse. A service based economy can only take you so far.
Sooner or later you have to make something or have enough foreign
exchange to purchase it elsewhere. Right now we are extending IOUs to
fund our imports but sooner or later those chips will be called in.


So, which ones are you willing to give up? We have a fairly low tax rate
already, certainly vs. the rest of the world.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/taxes/p148855.asp

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:13:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That's the problem with entitlements. Once they're out there, they
become a sacred right. For a variety of reasons US manufacturing has
become uncompetetive in the world market place. Increased
entitlements and the resulting higher tax rates can only make the
problem worse. A service based economy can only take you so far.
Sooner or later you have to make something or have enough foreign
exchange to purchase it elsewhere. Right now we are extending IOUs to
fund our imports but sooner or later those chips will be called in.


So, which ones are you willing to give up? We have a fairly low tax rate
already, certainly vs. the rest of the world.

You conveniently miss the point: The discussion is/was about
starting new entitlements not getting rid of the existing ones. In
addition to having lower tax rates than many other countries, we also
have a much higher standard of living. Unfortunately that is likely
to change.

On 10/13/2010 9:06 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:13:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That's the problem with entitlements. Once they're out there, they
become a sacred right. For a variety of reasons US manufacturing has
become uncompetetive in the world market place. Increased
entitlements and the resulting higher tax rates can only make the
problem worse. A service based economy can only take you so far.
Sooner or later you have to make something or have enough foreign
exchange to purchase it elsewhere. Right now we are extending IOUs to
fund our imports but sooner or later those chips will be called in.


So, which ones are you willing to give up? We have a fairly low tax rate
already, certainly vs. the rest of the world.

You conveniently miss the point: The discussion is/was about
starting new entitlements not getting rid of the existing ones. In
addition to having lower tax rates than many other countries, we also
have a much higher standard of living. Unfortunately that is likely
to change.


There are many countries now that provide a much higher quality of life
for the majority of their citizens.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:25:09 -0400, Jim wrote:

There are many countries now that provide a much higher quality of life
for the majority of their citizens.

Frankly I don't believe that when you measure quality by the same
indicators that most of us do.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
On 10/13/2010 9:06 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:13:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That's the problem with entitlements. Once they're out there, they
become a sacred right. For a variety of reasons US manufacturing has
become uncompetetive in the world market place. Increased
entitlements and the resulting higher tax rates can only make the
problem worse. A service based economy can only take you so far.
Sooner or later you have to make something or have enough foreign
exchange to purchase it elsewhere. Right now we are extending IOUs to
fund our imports but sooner or later those chips will be called in.


So, which ones are you willing to give up? We have a fairly low tax rate
already, certainly vs. the rest of the world.

You conveniently miss the point: The discussion is/was about
starting new entitlements not getting rid of the existing ones. In
addition to having lower tax rates than many other countries, we also
have a much higher standard of living. Unfortunately that is likely
to change.


There are many countries now that provide a much higher quality of life
for the majority of their citizens.

Exactly.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:13:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That's the problem with entitlements. Once they're out there, they
become a sacred right. For a variety of reasons US manufacturing has
become uncompetetive in the world market place. Increased
entitlements and the resulting higher tax rates can only make the
problem worse. A service based economy can only take you so far.
Sooner or later you have to make something or have enough foreign
exchange to purchase it elsewhere. Right now we are extending IOUs to
fund our imports but sooner or later those chips will be called in.


So, which ones are you willing to give up? We have a fairly low tax rate
already, certainly vs. the rest of the world.

You conveniently miss the point: The discussion is/was about
starting new entitlements not getting rid of the existing ones. In
addition to having lower tax rates than many other countries, we also
have a much higher standard of living. Unfortunately that is likely
to change.


I didn't conveniently miss anything. All the Teabaggers are complaining
about deficits right? So, which programs do they want to cut?

Your claim that we have a much higher standard of living isn't that
accurate. It depends is a more accurate comment. How about infant mortality?
How about life expectancy? How about medical outcomes per dollar spent? We
certainly don't have the highest stand when you consider all those things.
If you mean, do we drive the biggest cars with the worst mileage, then sure.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 10:12:14 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:13:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That's the problem with entitlements. Once they're out there, they
become a sacred right. For a variety of reasons US manufacturing has
become uncompetetive in the world market place. Increased
entitlements and the resulting higher tax rates can only make the
problem worse. A service based economy can only take you so far.
Sooner or later you have to make something or have enough foreign
exchange to purchase it elsewhere. Right now we are extending IOUs to
fund our imports but sooner or later those chips will be called in.


So, which ones are you willing to give up? We have a fairly low tax rate
already, certainly vs. the rest of the world.

You conveniently miss the point: The discussion is/was about
starting new entitlements not getting rid of the existing ones. In
addition to having lower tax rates than many other countries, we also
have a much higher standard of living. Unfortunately that is likely
to change.


I didn't conveniently miss anything. All the Teabaggers are complaining
about deficits right? So, which programs do they want to cut?

I am not a teabagger, not by a long shot. They are just as rabid as
the loony left. You can't cut any existing programs because it is
politically unacceptable. I already stated that.

Your claim that we have a much higher standard of living isn't that
accurate. It depends is a more accurate comment. How about infant mortality?
How about life expectancy?

We have a very diverse population demographic in this country and some
of those segments have very unhealthy lifestyles and make bad
decisions about lots of other things. No governmental program is
going to fix that, and broad based statistics get dragged down as a
result.

How about medical outcomes per dollar spent?

I have no idea how to evaluate that.