wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 22:55:31 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 19:11:44 -0400, Secular Humoresque
wrote:

We need
to get rid of the health insurance industry as it exists in this
country.

I think health insurance should be something like $3000 deductible
(what I am carrying now). If that was true the cost would be
reasonable and the patient would argue about abusive bills for silly
stuff.
Medical procedures got expensive because they were "free". Nobody
cared that the doctor was charging you $200 for tetanus shot because
the insurance picked it up.

So, someone who works a minimum wage job is suppose to have $3K sitting
around for a doctor?

Please don't blame doctors. The insurance companies bleed them dry with
needless paperwork, all the while delaying claims and obstructing needed
care. Get rid of the insurance companies, and we might have a shot at
decent, affordable health care.


If they don't have 3 grand "sitting around", how will they ever be
able to afford the insurance premium?

Because people live paycheck to paycheck. They can afford to pay $200/mo
(barely) that they can scrape up, but they can't afford nor probably have
access to $3K. Seems pretty obvious to me...

It was a no brainer for me. I could have paid $3600 a year for "full"
insurance (still with a $25 co pay and things that they won't cover)
or just keep $3000 in reserve for if I ever got sick.

Certainly is. I don't have to worry about plunking down a bunch if I need
to... car dies, I pay cash, but most people aren't in your or my spot.

I have the same question for those people carrying huge credit card
balances. If you don't have enough money to cover your expenses, how
can you afford to cover your expenses and also pay the bank 29.999% on
top of your expenses?

It's called minimum payments. In the short run, that works fine, but of
course, the long term isn't so rosy. You keep borrowing, keep racking up
more debt to pay those must-pay bills like utilities and mortgage. It's a
vicious cycle.

On 10/5/10 5:21 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:36:56 -0700,
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 22:55:31 -0700,
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 19:11:44 -0400, Secular Humoresque
wrote:

We need
to get rid of the health insurance industry as it exists in this
country.

I think health insurance should be something like $3000 deductible
(what I am carrying now). If that was true the cost would be
reasonable and the patient would argue about abusive bills for silly
stuff.
Medical procedures got expensive because they were "free". Nobody
cared that the doctor was charging you $200 for tetanus shot because
the insurance picked it up.

So, someone who works a minimum wage job is suppose to have $3K sitting
around for a doctor?

Please don't blame doctors. The insurance companies bleed them dry with
needless paperwork, all the while delaying claims and obstructing needed
care. Get rid of the insurance companies, and we might have a shot at
decent, affordable health care.


If they don't have 3 grand "sitting around", how will they ever be
able to afford the insurance premium?

Because people live paycheck to paycheck. They can afford to pay $200/mo
(barely) that they can scrape up, but they can't afford nor probably have
access to $3K. Seems pretty obvious to me...

It was a no brainer for me. I could have paid $3600 a year for "full"
insurance (still with a $25 co pay and things that they won't cover)
or just keep $3000 in reserve for if I ever got sick.

Certainly is. I don't have to worry about plunking down a bunch if I need
to... car dies, I pay cash, but most people aren't in your or my spot.

I have the same question for those people carrying huge credit card
balances. If you don't have enough money to cover your expenses, how
can you afford to cover your expenses and also pay the bank 29.999% on
top of your expenses?

It's called minimum payments. In the short run, that works fine, but of
course, the long term isn't so rosy. You keep borrowing, keep racking up
more debt to pay those must-pay bills like utilities and mortgage. It's a
vicious cycle.


You have described the problem but the ONLY fix it is to get some
personal responsibility back in the populace. I am not rich and I
really never have been but I was brought up understanding it is better
to save up your money and buy something instead of doing it on credit.
Insurance is nothing but prepaid credit.


That health savings acct will be a big help to a worker at Wal-Mart
whose family member needs a $200,000 kidney transplant.



--
Republicans are the Party of No:
No Leaders / No Ideas / No Morals

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:36:56 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 22:55:31 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 19:11:44 -0400, Secular Humoresque
wrote:

We need
to get rid of the health insurance industry as it exists in this
country.

I think health insurance should be something like $3000 deductible
(what I am carrying now). If that was true the cost would be
reasonable and the patient would argue about abusive bills for silly
stuff.
Medical procedures got expensive because they were "free". Nobody
cared that the doctor was charging you $200 for tetanus shot because
the insurance picked it up.

So, someone who works a minimum wage job is suppose to have $3K sitting
around for a doctor?

Please don't blame doctors. The insurance companies bleed them dry with
needless paperwork, all the while delaying claims and obstructing needed
care. Get rid of the insurance companies, and we might have a shot at
decent, affordable health care.


If they don't have 3 grand "sitting around", how will they ever be
able to afford the insurance premium?

Because people live paycheck to paycheck. They can afford to pay $200/mo
(barely) that they can scrape up, but they can't afford nor probably have
access to $3K. Seems pretty obvious to me...

It was a no brainer for me. I could have paid $3600 a year for "full"
insurance (still with a $25 co pay and things that they won't cover)
or just keep $3000 in reserve for if I ever got sick.

Certainly is. I don't have to worry about plunking down a bunch if I need
to... car dies, I pay cash, but most people aren't in your or my spot.

I have the same question for those people carrying huge credit card
balances. If you don't have enough money to cover your expenses, how
can you afford to cover your expenses and also pay the bank 29.999% on
top of your expenses?

It's called minimum payments. In the short run, that works fine, but of
course, the long term isn't so rosy. You keep borrowing, keep racking up
more debt to pay those must-pay bills like utilities and mortgage. It's a
vicious cycle.


You have described the problem but the ONLY fix it is to get some
personal responsibility back in the populace. I am not rich and I
really never have been but I was brought up understanding it is better
to save up your money and buy something instead of doing it on credit.
Insurance is nothing but prepaid credit.

That's part of the "fix" but most people take personal responsibility if
given half a chance. Personal responsibility doesn't help much if you're
making minimum wage or have medical problems.

On 10/5/10 8:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:31:17 -0700,
wrote:

You have described the problem but the ONLY fix it is to get some
personal responsibility back in the populace. I am not rich and I
really never have been but I was brought up understanding it is better
to save up your money and buy something instead of doing it on credit.
Insurance is nothing but prepaid credit.

That's part of the "fix" but most people take personal responsibility if
given half a chance. Personal responsibility doesn't help much if you're
making minimum wage or have medical problems.


If you are making double the minimum wage, you are still eligible for
Medicaid.

As well you should be.

--
Republicans are the Party of No:
No Leaders / No Ideas / No Morals

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 21:17:26 -0400, Secular Humoresque
wrote:

That's part of the "fix" but most people take personal responsibility
if
given half a chance. Personal responsibility doesn't help much if
you're
making minimum wage or have medical problems.


If you are making double the minimum wage, you are still eligible for
Medicaid.

As well you should be.


That is why "the poor" were a red herring in this whole health care
debate. The people most likely not to have insurance are in the
25k-50k range and the younger of them by choice ... until they get
sick.
From what I am seeing, they may still choose not to have insurance and
just pay the fine until 2014 when it really becomes a number.

I think when this shakes out, you will see a whole lot of people on
high deductible plans and they still won't be able to afford to go to
doctors for minor ailments.

It's hardly every "by choice." It's more about not being able to afford
much.

And, it's not as simple as you make it out to be re the fine. Read up.

wrote in message
news
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:33:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 21:17:26 -0400, Secular Humoresque
wrote:

That's part of the "fix" but most people take personal responsibility
if
given half a chance. Personal responsibility doesn't help much if
you're
making minimum wage or have medical problems.


If you are making double the minimum wage, you are still eligible for
Medicaid.

As well you should be.


That is why "the poor" were a red herring in this whole health care
debate. The people most likely not to have insurance are in the
25k-50k range and the younger of them by choice ... until they get
sick.
From what I am seeing, they may still choose not to have insurance and
just pay the fine until 2014 when it really becomes a number.

I think when this shakes out, you will see a whole lot of people on
high deductible plans and they still won't be able to afford to go to
doctors for minor ailments.

It's hardly every "by choice." It's more about not being able to afford
much.

And, it's not as simple as you make it out to be re the fine. Read up.

If they "can't afford much" how will they be dealing with having to
buy insurance. We have all agreed it won't be free.

So, you think that someone who can make a $200/mo payment is the same as the
person who has $3K sitting in the bank?

You keep talking about the government 35% subsidy but the rates have
gone up close to 100% so you still will have employers who will not be
offering insurance. The small business people we know are still scared
to death about how this will work out for them and that is why they
are not hiring. The kid that used to be my wife's assistant is working
70-80 hours a week at the gate company as is his boss because they are
afraid to hire anyone.

?? Firstly, I never said anything about subsidies. Yes, there will be
employers who don't offer insurance. And, that means they don't have to
spend money on those programs and can hire people. I don't know who you've
been talking to, but the definition of a small business seems pretty loose.
There are some pretty big companies that are technically and for tax
purposes are considered "small businesses."

Yes, Karl Rove and friends certainly did a number on lots of people. They
are certainly afraid.

He is happy with the money tho. This is a smart kid and he is paying
down his mortgage with his overtime.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 21:14:15 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
news
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:33:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...

If they "can't afford much" how will they be dealing with having to
buy insurance. We have all agreed it won't be free.

So, you think that someone who can make a $200/mo payment is the same as
the
person who has $3K sitting in the bank?

Adding me was $500 a month, $200 was the 26 year old AFTER you bought
the $500 "family" policy. Total $700 a month.

I thought you were rich. What's the problem?

You keep talking about the government 35% subsidy but the rates have
gone up close to 100% so you still will have employers who will not be
offering insurance. The small business people we know are still scared
to death about how this will work out for them and that is why they
are not hiring. The kid that used to be my wife's assistant is working
70-80 hours a week at the gate company as is his boss because they are
afraid to hire anyone.

?? Firstly, I never said anything about subsidies. Yes, there will be
employers who don't offer insurance. And, that means they don't have to
spend money on those programs and can hire people. I don't know who you've
been talking to, but the definition of a small business seems pretty
loose.
There are some pretty big companies that are technically and for tax
purposes are considered "small businesses."


I am talking about small business 4-20 employees. Your confusion is
the legislation talks about type S corporations and everyone assumes
that means "S"mall. It is just a type of closely held corporation ...
of any size. I had a type S for years.

So does Bechtel and a host of other "small" corporations of similar size.
It's not _my_ confusion. It's the confusion that the Republicans are
perpetrating on the American public.

Yes, Karl Rove and friends certainly did a number on lots of people. They
are certainly afraid.

What does Karl Rove have to do with a health care bill written in
Harry Reids office?

It wasn't "written in Harry Reid's office." Nice try. The Republicans made
lots of contributions, as did Democrats, and unfortunately too many
lobbyists and not enough regular people.

Karl Rove... not a thing, except all the money he's funneling into negative
campaigns.. money from guess who? Don't know? Neither do I. Why? The
Disclosure Act that was blocked by Republicans.

He is happy with the money tho. This is a smart kid and he is paying
down his mortgage with his overtime.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 00:21:45 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 21:14:15 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
news On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:33:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:ndlna6dacff61fbi75lsrsj0ji0p8j4psq@4ax. com...

If they "can't afford much" how will they be dealing with having to
buy insurance. We have all agreed it won't be free.

So, you think that someone who can make a $200/mo payment is the same as
the
person who has $3K sitting in the bank?

Adding me was $500 a month, $200 was the 26 year old AFTER you bought
the $500 "family" policy. Total $700 a month.

I thought you were rich. What's the problem?

I never said I was rich, you did.

But you have a problem affording a measly $700/mo.?



Yes, Karl Rove and friends certainly did a number on lots of people.
They
are certainly afraid.

What does Karl Rove have to do with a health care bill written in
Harry Reids office?

It wasn't "written in Harry Reid's office." Nice try. The Republicans made
lots of contributions, as did Democrats, and unfortunately too many
lobbyists and not enough regular people.

Bull****, the bill that came from the Democrats in the senate was
written without any input from the republicans. Nice try tho.

Completely untrue.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...ealth_car.html

Nice try with an alternate set of facts.


Karl Rove... not a thing, except all the money he's funneling into
negative
campaigns.. money from guess who? Don't know? Neither do I. Why? The
Disclosure Act that was blocked by Republicans.


Both sides have plenty of "bundled" money



It's estimated that the contributions from hidden money is something like
10:1 Reps/Dems.

Thanks SC and Citizen's United.

wrote in message
news
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:31:17 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

You have described the problem but the ONLY fix it is to get some
personal responsibility back in the populace. I am not rich and I
really never have been but I was brought up understanding it is better
to save up your money and buy something instead of doing it on credit.
Insurance is nothing but prepaid credit.

That's part of the "fix" but most people take personal responsibility if
given half a chance. Personal responsibility doesn't help much if you're
making minimum wage or have medical problems.


If you are making double the minimum wage, you are still eligible for
Medicaid.

Wow... that means you're rich and have no problem supporting yourself,
because the min. wage is a true living wage. NOT

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:30:25 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
news
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:31:17 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

You have described the problem but the ONLY fix it is to get some
personal responsibility back in the populace. I am not rich and I
really never have been but I was brought up understanding it is better
to save up your money and buy something instead of doing it on credit.
Insurance is nothing but prepaid credit.

That's part of the "fix" but most people take personal responsibility if
given half a chance. Personal responsibility doesn't help much if you're
making minimum wage or have medical problems.


If you are making double the minimum wage, you are still eligible for
Medicaid.

Wow... that means you're rich and have no problem supporting yourself,
because the min. wage is a true living wage. NOT

I responded to your minimum wage note,

I still say, if you are too broke to pay your bills, how can you
afford to support a banker/insurance company and still pay your bills.

You claimed that somehow someone who makes twice the minimum age shouldn't
be eligible for Medicaid. I called you out on that.

Who's talking about supporting banker/ins. companies?????