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On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:29:30 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:18:18 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:40:40 -0400, bpuharic wrote:



The Taliban didn't fly any planes into New York either. They never had
a particular beef with the US until we invaded their country.

Untrue - they were were harboring bin laden even after we asked them to
give
him up.


Read what I said again. They did not have a beef with the US until we
invaded their country. There were other ways of getting Bin Laden.

Read what I said... they were asked to give him up and they refused.

That is not the same as being one of the plotters of 9-11

Ok, it's just harboring and abetting them. So, it's pretty close, esp. after
3000 US citizens just died as a result.


We are not doing much of anything in Somalia. We can't even stop the
pirates that operate right on the coast. After Mogadishu we are not
venturing into the central part much at all.
Cite something to prove I am wrong.

Sure... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/06/wo...06somalia.html

Do you actually read the articles you link? This is 2 in a row where
the article says exactly the opposite of what you represented it as
saying..

"This is not an American offensive, said Johnnie Carson, the
assistant secretary of state for Africa. The U.S. military is not on
the ground in Somalia.."


And...

"Most of the American military assistance to the Somali government has been
focused on training, or has been channeled through African Union
peacekeepers. But that could change. An American official in Washington, who
said he was not authorized to speak publicly, predicted that American covert
forces would get involved if the offensive, which could begin in a few
weeks, dislodged Qaeda terrorists. "

And...

http://original.antiwar.com/lobe/201...slamist-group/

"Obama appears to have suspended such attacks, although, in mid-September
last year, helicopter-borne U.S. Special Forces ambushed a convoy carrying
Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan, the leader of an al Qaeda cell in Kenya who,
according to U.S. officials, played key roles in the 1998 bombings of the
U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam and a 2002 bombing of an Israeli
hotel in Mombasa. "


The whole thing unraveled after the Pentagon Papers exposed this all
and it became clear that instead of trying to wind down an unpopular
war, as promised by the new president, we were expanding it.
I expect this and subsequent "leaks" to bring the same anti-war
sentiment out this time.

now let's see....the current 'leaks' have told us nothing new at all

We will see won't we.

Just about everyone has said there's nothing new. Doesn't mean that the
totality of the information is something to ignore of course.

Like I said, let's wait and see what comes out. Simply the fact that
the government admits we are throwing money at corrupt governments
that are diverting it to the enemy should make someone mad.

I think we've been doing that for a long time. Feel free to dispute this.
I
think that the current admin is aware of this and I'm hopeful that that
policy will change over time. It certainly didn't change during the last
admin.


So a stupid and counter productive policy is ok if we have been doing
it a long time? I never said Bush was smart, much to the contrary. The
man was an idiot.. I am only criticizing Obama for acting as dumb as
Bush

I said that I was hopeful it would change, and from the last link, it
appears to be. So much for him acting as dumb as Bush.


I am surprised you aren't jumping on this because they are mostly from
the Bush administration ... but the policy is the same now isn't it?

Not even close. Not for Iraq and not for Afg.

OK what is different? Petraus says he is dusting off the Iraq surge
protocol and implementing it in Afghanistan, in spite of the fact that
the situation is totally different.

I've noted the differences several times. Feel free to go back and read
them. If anyone can salvage Bush's mess in Afg., then it would be Petraus.
He did pretty well in Iraq. I'm not a military expert (are you?), so I
give
his opinion some weight.


The real answer is what happens when we leave. I have never
underestimated the ability of the military to kill people and break
things in order to control a situation, given enough money. The
question is whether we are actually accomplishing anything or are we
just prolonging a war for grand children to fight.
We have been in Korea for almost 60 years and things are worse now
than they were in 1953.


?? In 1953 we were still actively fighting, at least through the first half
of the year. How many US troops have died fighting N. Koreans this year?