On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:58:08 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:45:44 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

the depression started in 2007. bush was president. paulson, who
worked for bush, was treasury secretary and INSiSTED congress give him
800B with NO accountability at all.

Both parties are guilty as hell. Bush sucked as
President. And Obama may make Carter look good, and that will be hard to
do

obama had nothing to do with it

you seem to think he's guilty of being president while being black

doesn't Obama also employ Paulson?

no, he doesn't. paulson is at johns hopkins university

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:28:20 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:22:20 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

no, i lost because i was middle class. you seem to forget that there
are 100M in the same shape i'm in

but, then, you're right wing. the problems of the middle class dont
interest you at all. not a bit


Where the hell you get 100,000,000? Another factoid pulled out of your ass!
a 1/3 of the people in the us are not middle class workers. There were only
120,000,000 employed in 2008. Most people, middle class included had less
than $50k in savings and retirement funds when they retired. And that was
before the crash. Most did not lose much in the crash, as they had spent
all the money they made already.

the question is, what does this have to do with anything? the issue is
the situation of the middle class. that includes joblessness, decrease
in wealth (including 401K's, home assets, etc) and the fact we havent
had a raise in 30 years while the richest 1% have had a 500% increase
in income


A few years ago, we discussed the cost of
boats on this group. At least one person sid they did not care what the
boat cost, but what the payment per month were. They ignored the fact the
boat loan was for 15 years for a $9,000 boat. That attitude was and is
rampant in both the lower and middle class.

more proof that the right hates the middle class. nothing changed for
the middle class in terms of attiitudes. what DID change is the
financial sector's rapacious GREED in inventing new financial
instruments and using these to transfer MASSIVE amounts of wealth FROM
the middle class TO the rich by bush's tax cuts, lack of sharing
increases in productivity, etc

there's a reason the GINI coefficient, which measures income
inequality, is the WORST For the US vs other democracies. there's a
reason the middle class hasnt had a raise in 30 years....and that
reason is GREED on the part of wall street and others who control the
economy

you have NOTHING but emotion. no data. no facts. you have right wing
mythology, fables and fairy tales you use to comfort yourself about
why the rich are blessed of god while the middle class deserves
poverty

Admit it, you made bad choices,
and are economically ignorant. We lost jobs because people decided a living
wage was required, and that living wage was enough to be upper middle class
in the last 60 years.

PERFECT EXAMPLE of what i'm talking about...you insist that the US,
which has the POOREST GINI coefficient has a greedy middle class when
it's the RICH who are greedy.

you're very right wing. you're a PERFECT example of how ARROGANT the
right wing is.
No raise in 10 years, says you suck at your job

more right wing bull****

NOBODY in the middle class has had a raise; NOBODY

dooes the ENTIRE middle class suck at their jobs?

WHY is this ONLY in the US? is it ONLY the US middle class that sucks?

you are SO filled with bizarre right wing bull**** it's laughable!

.. 100% Democrat and Republican and Independent Congress peoples
fault. Not Wall Street, not the big banks.

really? CDO's went from 1 trillion in 1997 to SIXTY TWO TRILLION in
2007

the financial sector accounted for 40% of GDP in 2007. what value did
this bring to the US economy?

NOTHING! NOTHING at all. it was GREED. the numbers dont lie. but the
right wing DOES. they want to blame the middle class even though the
US middle class just takes it year after year after year.

They were going along because
the government was giving them huge profits.

WTF?? how does 'the government' give them big profits? they simply
wiped out all regulation, and stole everything not nailed down

and you blame the middle class!

Wall streets and the big banks
were greedy so they insured the loans and sold them for even more profit.
That was criminal, but all started because government gave away the house.

EXACTLY!! right wing BULL**** said 'smaller govt and less regulation
will give the free market a chance to work'

and THAT destroyed the US economy. the middle class was NOT at fault

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:26:33 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 21/07/2010 8:51 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:36:22 -0600,
wrote:
why not check the GINI coefficient? the US has the least social
mobility of 10 western democracies, except for the UK

Because many have lost the American way, trading it in for envy, greed
and entitlement -- which do not work.

more bull****. more proof you hate the middle class.

which is more logical: 100M middle class wage earners 'lost the
ameircan way' (whatever that means)

or that a small group of rich, greedy wall street managers simply
stole everything not nailed down?

answer: the finanical sector accounted for 40% of GDP in 2007. THAT
tells you it was WALL STREET, not MAIN street that's the problem



and those without raises? that's the ENTIRE MIDDLE CLASS

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...the-day-6.html

I actually don't entirely disagree with you in that being middle class
is now tougher than ever before. But I disagree with the reason.

Big fat corruptive government is the cause

corruption in the form of right wing greed which enables the richest
1% to have a 500% increase in income in 30 years...and then it sells
this as 'deregulation' and 'smaller govt'.

.. Track total government
revnue against wages...you will see government outsrips income. And you
can't keep having government grow like a cancer.

which has NOTHING to do with the fact the financial sector, NOT the
govt, destroyed the US economy

At some point, DC will go bankrupt. And Obama will have the dubious
honor of kicking DC past the tipping point.

and it was bush and his right wing buddies who laid the groundwork for
destroying the US economy

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:28:10 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 21/07/2010 8:52 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:24:30 -0600,
wrote:


guess that means the entire middle class is stupid.

No, about 50%.

Quite a few middle class make millionaires before they are 50. You get
to know them when you are there. Something you will never know.

really? then why hasnt the middle class had a raise in 30 years? are
they ALL stupid?

you have your right wing bull**** about millionaires. and i have the
facts.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:36:49 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



"bpuharic" wrote in message


there's a reason CDO's went from 1 trillion in 97 to SIXTY TWO
TRILLION in 2007

greed of the rich. it had NOTHING to do with the middle class


you dont know **** about anything, let alone the middle class

I may be dumb, but not anywhere as dumb as you. I have bought several
houses, I own my house.

no one cares. you're not the entire middle class. you simply think
you're rich so it MUST be god on your side

go ahead. sell that attitude to the millions who cant make mortgage
payments, or lose their jobs.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:44:55 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 21/07/2010 6:59 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:03:06 -0400, wrote:



I'm going to try to guess what you meant to say...

Loan applications usually are interested in liquid assets. 401K
accounts don't count. I ralize they can be liquidated but loan officers
aren't interested in that.

401k's are liquid assets if you take a tax penalty

not too bright, are you?

and what makes you think loan officers arent interested in money?


But you would be wholely stupid to do that, taking money out of a
IRA/401k prematurely is about as dumb as it gets. And "rich" people
don't look at dumb things as valid options.

i agree it's DUMB to raid your 401K. but that is irrelevant in a loan
application.


Want to be rich, just means you have to do what it takes to be on the
right end of that transaction. Save money and loan it to people who
will pay it abck with interest.

or get greedy and invent new forms of bull**** like CDO's then get
george bush, ronald reagan, etc., to call this free enterprise

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:04:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 21/07/2010 7:02 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:26:07 -0400, wrote:

bpuharic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:00:59 -0400, wrote:



By the definition of middle class established here ($125K - $250K) it
is more like several million.

nobody who makes 250K is middle class.


Your situation and paranoia will lead you to an early grave if you don't
relax. Try turning your computer off for a week, or two.

IOW try religion...the opiate of the people? just sit back and let the
rich folks have their way?

that's good for right wing sheep. not for people who think

Yep, we know you will vote for it. Obama is a vote for repression. You
just haven't got the tax bill for the "rich" in DC yet. But you will!


ROFLMAO!! bush was a religious fanatic. and i dont make capital gains
income so the tax changes wont affect me

you're completely ignorant of the american scence. you're blind

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:04:32 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:58:58 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

bull****. and what makes you think i dont work 12 hour days, on call,
etc.

you really are full of ****

"on call" is not really working but I understand what you are saying.
When I was "on call" I was on the clock or I was not going to answer
the phone. There are laws about that.

If you are really working that hard and your employer is not rewarding
you with more money QUIT!

gee. and do what for a job?

It sounds like you would make more money (hourly) at WalMart.

it's getting to that point for EVERYONE in the US. you right wingers
are like the frogs in boiling water


You keep talking about unions, form one.

in the US you can't form a union without getting fired.

Get the rest of the engineers
who work with you to demand more money or walk. If you really believe
in unions, you need to be willing to strike and take the pain.

the right winers have the bases covered. they destroyed the ability to
form unions in the US

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:18:54 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 21/07/2010 7:29 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:04:39 -0400, wrote:

That doesn't make any sense. If you want to worry about something,
worry about supporting the lazy ****s who don't want to work.

you mean the wall street hedgefund managers?

Those guys work a lot harder than you do. 12 hour days and 6 or 7 day
weeks are not uncommon. The thing most people do not understand is how
hard rich people work to get rich and stay rich.
Greed is a real slave master.

Is it greed or desire for independance? I mean this seriously as to me
I never looked at it like greed. And never screwed anyone for a dime
doing it.

it's greed. there's a reason the financial sector accounted for 40% of
GDP in 2007 while the US did NOT become more competitive in world
markets. the financial sector added NOTHING to US assets

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:28:20 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:22:20 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

no, i lost because i was middle class. you seem to forget that there
are 100M in the same shape i'm in

but, then, you're right wing. the problems of the middle class dont
interest you at all. not a bit


Where the hell you get 100,000,000? Another factoid pulled out of your
ass!
a 1/3 of the people in the us are not middle class workers. There were
only
120,000,000 employed in 2008. Most people, middle class included had less
than $50k in savings and retirement funds when they retired. And that was
before the crash. Most did not lose much in the crash, as they had spent
all the money they made already.

the question is, what does this have to do with anything? the issue is
the situation of the middle class. that includes joblessness, decrease
in wealth (including 401K's, home assets, etc) and the fact we havent
had a raise in 30 years while the richest 1% have had a 500% increase
in income


A few years ago, we discussed the cost of
boats on this group. At least one person sid they did not care what the
boat cost, but what the payment per month were. They ignored the fact the
boat loan was for 15 years for a $9,000 boat. That attitude was and is
rampant in both the lower and middle class.

more proof that the right hates the middle class. nothing changed for
the middle class in terms of attiitudes. what DID change is the
financial sector's rapacious GREED in inventing new financial
instruments and using these to transfer MASSIVE amounts of wealth FROM
the middle class TO the rich by bush's tax cuts, lack of sharing
increases in productivity, etc

there's a reason the GINI coefficient, which measures income
inequality, is the WORST For the US vs other democracies. there's a
reason the middle class hasnt had a raise in 30 years....and that
reason is GREED on the part of wall street and others who control the
economy

you have NOTHING but emotion. no data. no facts. you have right wing
mythology, fables and fairy tales you use to comfort yourself about
why the rich are blessed of god while the middle class deserves
poverty

Admit it, you made bad choices,
and are economically ignorant. We lost jobs because people decided a
living
wage was required, and that living wage was enough to be upper middle
class
in the last 60 years.

PERFECT EXAMPLE of what i'm talking about...you insist that the US,
which has the POOREST GINI coefficient has a greedy middle class when
it's the RICH who are greedy.

you're very right wing. you're a PERFECT example of how ARROGANT the
right wing is.
No raise in 10 years, says you suck at your job

more right wing bull****

NOBODY in the middle class has had a raise; NOBODY

dooes the ENTIRE middle class suck at their jobs?

WHY is this ONLY in the US? is it ONLY the US middle class that sucks?

you are SO filled with bizarre right wing bull**** it's laughable!

. 100% Democrat and Republican and Independent Congress peoples
fault. Not Wall Street, not the big banks.

really? CDO's went from 1 trillion in 1997 to SIXTY TWO TRILLION in
2007

the financial sector accounted for 40% of GDP in 2007. what value did
this bring to the US economy?

NOTHING! NOTHING at all. it was GREED. the numbers dont lie. but the
right wing DOES. they want to blame the middle class even though the
US middle class just takes it year after year after year.

They were going along because
the government was giving them huge profits.

WTF?? how does 'the government' give them big profits? they simply
wiped out all regulation, and stole everything not nailed down

and you blame the middle class!

Wall streets and the big banks
were greedy so they insured the loans and sold them for even more profit.
That was criminal, but all started because government gave away the house.

EXACTLY!! right wing BULL**** said 'smaller govt and less regulation
will give the free market a chance to work'

and THAT destroyed the US economy. the middle class was NOT at fault


Man you'd better slow down. All this ranting will take its toll on your
health.

BTW.....many of your "middle class" Americans have had increases over the
past ten years. They are called merit increases.