"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:14:04 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:32:25 -0400, wrote:


you know **** about business. if what you say is true, then why is the
economy a disaster?

answer: because too many people believe as you do.


Not sure how old you are, but if you're in your late 40s, there's still
time
to have a shot at a decent retirement income.

that's true. unfortunately i'm 55. it's going to be a long hot summer

You might want to consider
alternative instruments, such as a modified whole-life insurance policy.
They're not just about death benefits. There are some that will give you a
payout that is tax-free income between say 70 and 85, and still leave you
some cash balance without taking away from the death benefit over much.
I'd
suggest talking to a reputable agent, e.g., New York Life or another of
the
biggies.

i'd thought about that but the matching from my employer's 401K is
pretty good...i also have been talking with my funds manager about the
slowing of the economy to see where we go from here.



Finally....a rational thought.

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:14:04 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:32:25 -0400, wrote:


you know **** about business. if what you say is true, then why is the
economy a disaster?

answer: because too many people believe as you do.


Not sure how old you are, but if you're in your late 40s, there's still
time
to have a shot at a decent retirement income.

that's true. unfortunately i'm 55. it's going to be a long hot summer

You might want to consider
alternative instruments, such as a modified whole-life insurance policy.
They're not just about death benefits. There are some that will give you a
payout that is tax-free income between say 70 and 85, and still leave you
some cash balance without taking away from the death benefit over much.
I'd
suggest talking to a reputable agent, e.g., New York Life or another of
the
biggies.

i'd thought about that but the matching from my employer's 401K is
pretty good...i also have been talking with my funds manager about the
slowing of the economy to see where we go from here.



At 55 you'd still see some benefit but it wouldn't be as good. I'd
definitely fund your 401K with the match but no more. The problem is that
taxes will increase, and you're going to have to take the money out at some
point. Even if you can offset somewhat, it'll still help.

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:30:16 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

it's greed. there's a reason the financial sector accounted for 40% of
GDP in 2007 while the US did NOT become more competitive in world
markets. the financial sector added NOTHING to US assets

Where do you think the money for your retirement will be coming from?

The whole basis for everyone's pension, 401k and IRA is that Wall
Street sector you seem to hate. Retirees are by definition not adding
anything to the economy, they are living off of it.

Well, that's not really true. They're spending their money in many ways
that contribute. If they just hoarded their money, the economy would be
much worse off.

The same is true of everyone on Social Security. You better hope Wall
Street stays 40% of the economy if you want your 401k to be worth
anything when you start sucking off the public tit.

Unfortunately, 401Ks and IRAs (except Roths) aren't really great for
retirement instruments. People forget about the tax consequences of
withdrawing money. Tax rates are at historic lows. They will rise, and one
needs to factor that in when planning for retirement.



Well put. That's why I've been slowly removing money from my traditional
IRA for the past ten years to minimize the tax implications as much as I
can.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:49:19 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:14:04 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


i'd thought about that but the matching from my employer's 401K is
pretty good...i also have been talking with my funds manager about the
slowing of the economy to see where we go from here.



At 55 you'd still see some benefit but it wouldn't be as good. I'd
definitely fund your 401K with the match but no more. The problem is that
taxes will increase, and you're going to have to take the money out at some
point. Even if you can offset somewhat, it'll still help.

yeah i've been doing the minimum for awhile. lots of managers
recommend putting 10-20% in but no one has that kind of money and it's
nonsense to do that when it's far from certain wall street has a clue
about anything

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:39:34 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:41:31 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


neither will 100,000,000 other middle class americans.


Now I'm off to the Hard Rock casino to enhance my lifestyle.

yeah. tell us again about all those raises we got.


I never claimed that a majority received raises. It's you that claim all
over this news group that EVERY member of the class have not received
increases.

fine. you go show me where the data is showing the middle class has
gotten a raise.

i've shown you data that they didnt. AND that the rich got a 500%
increase in 30 years

where's your data?


We're beating a very dead horse. It's kind like what the meaning of is is.

nom=de=plume wrote:

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:14:04 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:32:25 -0400, wrote:


you know **** about business. if what you say is true, then why is the
economy a disaster?

answer: because too many people believe as you do.


Not sure how old you are, but if you're in your late 40s, there's
still time
to have a shot at a decent retirement income.

that's true. unfortunately i'm 55. it's going to be a long hot summer

You might want to consider
alternative instruments, such as a modified whole-life insurance policy.
They're not just about death benefits. There are some that will give
you a
payout that is tax-free income between say 70 and 85, and still leave
you
some cash balance without taking away from the death benefit over
much. I'd
suggest talking to a reputable agent, e.g., New York Life or another
of the
biggies.

i'd thought about that but the matching from my employer's 401K is
pretty good...i also have been talking with my funds manager about the
slowing of the economy to see where we go from here.



At 55 you'd still see some benefit but it wouldn't be as good. I'd
definitely fund your 401K with the match but no more. The problem is
that taxes will increase, and you're going to have to take the money out
at some point. Even if you can offset somewhat, it'll still help.


Bad advice. With catch-up he can put $22k this year in the 401k.
He should be maxing that to shelter it from taxes.
Even if it's money market with no return.
The feds won't let MM go below par because the economy would collapse.
That tax savings is money in the bank.
Maybe about 5 grand for him.
When he takes it out upon retirement he'll be in a lower or no-tax bracket.
Save, save, save. Then you die.
Or you could gamble with equity funds. But don't cry about it.

Jim - Financial whiz kid. Hey, I ain't broke or complaining.

On 7/22/10 3:06 PM, D.Duck wrote:

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:39:34 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:41:31 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


neither will 100,000,000 other middle class americans.


Now I'm off to the Hard Rock casino to enhance my lifestyle.

yeah. tell us again about all those raises we got.


I never claimed that a majority received raises. It's you that claim all
over this news group that EVERY member of the class have not received
increases.

fine. you go show me where the data is showing the middle class has
gotten a raise.

i've shown you data that they didnt. AND that the rich got a 500%
increase in 30 years

where's your data?


We're beating a very dead horse. It's kind like what the meaning of is is.


I'm glad I skipped most of this endless "financial" thread. Reading the
investment advice and discussions here should be enough to send any
prudemt investor to the race track.

The stock market has been built on little more than fraud and bull****
since the 1980s. Except for shares in two companies, I've been out of
the market for years, and spend no nights losing sleep over my
retirement funds.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:14:04 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:32:25 -0400, wrote:


you know **** about business. if what you say is true, then why is the
economy a disaster?

answer: because too many people believe as you do.


Not sure how old you are, but if you're in your late 40s, there's still
time
to have a shot at a decent retirement income.

that's true. unfortunately i'm 55. it's going to be a long hot summer

You might want to consider
alternative instruments, such as a modified whole-life insurance
policy.
They're not just about death benefits. There are some that will give
you a
payout that is tax-free income between say 70 and 85, and still leave
you
some cash balance without taking away from the death benefit over much.
I'd
suggest talking to a reputable agent, e.g., New York Life or another of
the
biggies.

i'd thought about that but the matching from my employer's 401K is
pretty good...i also have been talking with my funds manager about the
slowing of the economy to see where we go from here.



At 55 you'd still see some benefit but it wouldn't be as good. I'd
definitely fund your 401K with the match but no more. The problem is that
taxes will increase, and you're going to have to take the money out at
some point. Even if you can offset somewhat, it'll still help.


Bad advice. With catch-up he can put $22k this year in the 401k.
He should be maxing that to shelter it from taxes.

Nope. Right now, taxes are low, so it's doubtful that a it'll push him into
a higher bracket, and even if it does, you're talking about a couple of
percent. The future is much more uncertain, but it's very clear that taxes
will likely go up, and as a retired person, he should be minimizing his tax
exposure.

Even if it's money market with no return.

?? That makes no sense at all.

The feds won't let MM go below par because the economy would collapse.
That tax savings is money in the bank.

?? There tax savings of investing in a 401K is minimal at this point.

Maybe about 5 grand for him.
When he takes it out upon retirement he'll be in a lower or no-tax
bracket.

Actually, that's doubtful and thee money he'll be taking out will be much
less than he's likely to be used to living on. By putting money into
something that basically gives you back your own money, you can take it tax
free and mitigate what will have to come out of your 401k/ira and be taxed.

Save, save, save. Then you die.

Amend this with, save, save, save, spend, spend, spend, die, get a death
bene for your heirs.

Or you could gamble with equity funds. But don't cry about it.

Jim - Financial whiz kid. Hey, I ain't broke or complaining.

I'd suggest talking to a qualified financial advisor who gets a fee vs. a
percentage, and not listen to me or anyone else on this newsgroup. I also
wouldn't rely on "fund" managers. They've got an axe to grind also.

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:30:16 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

it's greed. there's a reason the financial sector accounted for 40% of
GDP in 2007 while the US did NOT become more competitive in world
markets. the financial sector added NOTHING to US assets

Where do you think the money for your retirement will be coming from?

The whole basis for everyone's pension, 401k and IRA is that Wall
Street sector you seem to hate. Retirees are by definition not adding
anything to the economy, they are living off of it.

Well, that's not really true. They're spending their money in many ways
that contribute. If they just hoarded their money, the economy would be
much worse off.

The same is true of everyone on Social Security. You better hope Wall
Street stays 40% of the economy if you want your 401k to be worth
anything when you start sucking off the public tit.

Unfortunately, 401Ks and IRAs (except Roths) aren't really great for
retirement instruments. People forget about the tax consequences of
withdrawing money. Tax rates are at historic lows. They will rise, and
one needs to factor that in when planning for retirement.



Well put. That's why I've been slowly removing money from my traditional
IRA for the past ten years to minimize the tax implications as much as I
can.

Exactly. I know a couple of people who got a doubt whammy. They need the
money, which is taxed, but there's less of it because of the downturn.

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Jim" wrote in message


Bad advice. With catch-up he can put $22k this year in the 401k.
He should be maxing that to shelter it from taxes.

Nope. Right now, taxes are low, so it's doubtful that a it'll push him
into a higher bracket, and even if it does, you're talking about a
couple of percent. The future is much more uncertain, but it's very
clear that taxes will likely go up, and as a retired person, he should
be minimizing his tax exposure.


From what he's said he's in the 25-28% range already.
Why do you suppose he'll be in a higher bracket when retired?
The flies against most experience.

Even if it's money market with no return.

?? That makes no sense at all.

Pretty simple. You can't lose your contribution money as you could in
equity funds.
Remember, this is retirement money.

The feds won't let MM go below par because the economy would collapse.
That tax savings is money in the bank.

?? There tax savings of investing in a 401K is minimal at this point.


Don't know what you're talking about there.

Maybe about 5 grand for him.
When he takes it out upon retirement he'll be in a lower or no-tax
bracket.

Actually, that's doubtful and thee money he'll be taking out will be
much less than he's likely to be used to living on. By putting money
into something that basically gives you back your own money, you can
take it tax free and mitigate what will have to come out of your
401k/ira and be taxed.


Not doubtful at all. It's all very simple.
Put $22k in the 401k and pay no taxes on it.
Or don't and give the feds 25% ($5500.)
That's not financial advice, and it's not voodoo economics, or financial
adviser mumbo jumbo.
It's plain old taxes that anybody can quickly test with TurboTax or tax
tables.
He didn't spend $22k and he didn't pay $5500 in taxes on it.
That's $27,500 more he has for retirement - at a lower tax rate too.
Nothing could be simpler.

Save, save, save. Then you die.

Amend this with, save, save, save, spend, spend, spend, die, get a death
bene for your heirs.

Or you could gamble with equity funds. But don't cry about it.

Jim - Financial whiz kid. Hey, I ain't broke or complaining.

I'd suggest talking to a qualified financial advisor who gets a fee vs.
a percentage, and not listen to me or anyone else on this newsgroup. I
also wouldn't rely on "fund" managers. They've got an axe to grind also.


You don't need to pay a financial adviser to make simple risk decisions
for you. None of this is rocket science.
The way he talks he listened to people who told him Wall Street equity
mutual funds were a sure way to get rich.
So he got suckered.
But since he's part of the "middle class" he can probably do simple math
and see the tax savings in maxing 401k contributions at his stated
income level, which I think was about $150k.


Jim - Surprised I'm having trouble getting this understood.