On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:20:56 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:07:55 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

and there as many HF managers who saw this coming as economists

MOST hedge fund managers were betting against housing in 2007, that is
what hedge funds do.

except, of course, they told no one. the fine against goldman sachs
that depressed their first quarter earnings was for exactly this type
of screwing around


BTW I was reading an old Fortune magazine at Jury duty today (jan/feb
2010) and they had a list of the funds that did get it right this
year, one was up 265%. They also listed 1000 with their results for a
year and 3 years. I was looking at the Fidelity funds and most of them
were up this year, about half up over the last 3.
I guess I will dig out my 401k statement and see how it really did.
I know the last time I looked it was double what it was when I stopped
contributing in 1996.

too bad the right wing destroyed the pension system in this country
and let the rich replace it with 401k's.

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:20:56 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:07:55 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

and there as many HF managers who saw this coming as economists

MOST hedge fund managers were betting against housing in 2007, that is
what hedge funds do.

except, of course, they told no one. the fine against goldman sachs
that depressed their first quarter earnings was for exactly this type
of screwing around


BTW I was reading an old Fortune magazine at Jury duty today (jan/feb
2010) and they had a list of the funds that did get it right this
year, one was up 265%. They also listed 1000 with their results for a
year and 3 years. I was looking at the Fidelity funds and most of them
were up this year, about half up over the last 3.
I guess I will dig out my 401k statement and see how it really did.
I know the last time I looked it was double what it was when I stopped
contributing in 1996.

too bad the right wing destroyed the pension system in this country
and let the rich replace it with 401k's.



For those of in demand for jobs, 401k's were great. I was with NCR for 17.5
years. Defined benefit plan and I get $234 a month when I turned 65. Other
than one company, TI, I never would have got a pension. As did not stay
long enough to be vested. I did startups and small companies mostly. Still
get head hunters calls and I have been retired 8 years. That 401K match or
extra allowed me to have a large retirement backup. Luckily the non
retirement investments, and SS pay for my retirement costs, so the 401K
money still keeps growing. I invested in less risk items in the IRA's etc.
So did not lose the 60% you did. I figured out that I have to watch out for
myself. As I am the one most interested in my money. Tip: Invest in oil
health and sin. They always seem to pay. In 2002 I bought MO. I think it
was Loogie who said bad investment. Bad advice. Still pays near 5%
dividend and value has gone up at least 300%. I am against smoking, but
have no qualms about profiting on people burning up money.

On 20/07/2010 9:08 PM, Califbill wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:20:56 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:07:55 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

and there as many HF managers who saw this coming as economists

MOST hedge fund managers were betting against housing in 2007, that is
what hedge funds do.

except, of course, they told no one. the fine against goldman sachs
that depressed their first quarter earnings was for exactly this type
of screwing around


BTW I was reading an old Fortune magazine at Jury duty today (jan/feb
2010) and they had a list of the funds that did get it right this
year, one was up 265%. They also listed 1000 with their results for a
year and 3 years. I was looking at the Fidelity funds and most of them
were up this year, about half up over the last 3.
I guess I will dig out my 401k statement and see how it really did.
I know the last time I looked it was double what it was when I stopped
contributing in 1996.

too bad the right wing destroyed the pension system in this country
and let the rich replace it with 401k's.



For those of in demand for jobs, 401k's were great. I was with NCR for
17.5 years. Defined benefit plan and I get $234 a month when I turned
65. Other than one company, TI, I never would have got a pension. As did
not stay long enough to be vested. I did startups and small companies
mostly. Still get head hunters calls and I have been retired 8 years.
That 401K match or extra allowed me to have a large retirement backup.
Luckily the non retirement investments, and SS pay for my retirement
costs, so the 401K money still keeps growing. I invested in less risk
items in the IRA's etc. So did not lose the 60% you did. I figured out
that I have to watch out for myself. As I am the one most interested in
my money. Tip: Invest in oil health and sin. They always seem to pay. In
2002 I bought MO. I think it was Loogie who said bad investment. Bad
advice. Still pays near 5% dividend and value has gone up at least 300%.
I am against smoking, but have no qualms about profiting on people
burning up money.

I had MO in 1996 in the low 20's, sweet dividend too. And sold in about
the $55 range in 2004 when I started my exist out of USD. Was a sweet
ride. Might be a good buy here, but figure if I wait, might snag it at
$17 or so. Not liking the numbers I see heading into the fall.

--

Government has liberals, idealists and lawyers, but where is the common
sense?

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 20/07/2010 9:08 PM, Califbill wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:20:56 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:07:55 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

and there as many HF managers who saw this coming as economists

MOST hedge fund managers were betting against housing in 2007, that is
what hedge funds do.

except, of course, they told no one. the fine against goldman sachs
that depressed their first quarter earnings was for exactly this type
of screwing around


BTW I was reading an old Fortune magazine at Jury duty today (jan/feb
2010) and they had a list of the funds that did get it right this
year, one was up 265%. They also listed 1000 with their results for a
year and 3 years. I was looking at the Fidelity funds and most of them
were up this year, about half up over the last 3.
I guess I will dig out my 401k statement and see how it really did.
I know the last time I looked it was double what it was when I stopped
contributing in 1996.

too bad the right wing destroyed the pension system in this country
and let the rich replace it with 401k's.



For those of in demand for jobs, 401k's were great. I was with NCR for
17.5 years. Defined benefit plan and I get $234 a month when I turned
65. Other than one company, TI, I never would have got a pension. As did
not stay long enough to be vested. I did startups and small companies
mostly. Still get head hunters calls and I have been retired 8 years.
That 401K match or extra allowed me to have a large retirement backup.
Luckily the non retirement investments, and SS pay for my retirement
costs, so the 401K money still keeps growing. I invested in less risk
items in the IRA's etc. So did not lose the 60% you did. I figured out
that I have to watch out for myself. As I am the one most interested in
my money. Tip: Invest in oil health and sin. They always seem to pay. In
2002 I bought MO. I think it was Loogie who said bad investment. Bad
advice. Still pays near 5% dividend and value has gone up at least 300%.
I am against smoking, but have no qualms about profiting on people
burning up money.

I had MO in 1996 in the low 20's, sweet dividend too. And sold in about
the $55 range in 2004 when I started my exist out of USD. Was a sweet
ride. Might be a good buy here, but figure if I wait, might snag it at
$17 or so. Not liking the numbers I see heading into the fall.

--

Government has liberals, idealists and lawyers, but where is the common
sense?

MO has divested of Kraft, so I now have KFT. And MO is only part of Altria
now. They split the company and formed a European company. Protects them
from all the US lawsuits. Separate company. so now that $55 mo is $21 MO
6.5% div, $51 PM 4.6% div, and some KFT $29 and 4% div. Bought some HCP
only pays 5% now. But was a $13 stock and paying 11% in 2002. But split 2:1
in 2004 and is now $31. Put those stocks in the IRA's. High dividend
REIT's, etc.

On 21/07/2010 12:32 AM, Califbill wrote:


"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 20/07/2010 9:08 PM, Califbill wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:20:56 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:07:55 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

and there as many HF managers who saw this coming as economists

MOST hedge fund managers were betting against housing in 2007, that is
what hedge funds do.

except, of course, they told no one. the fine against goldman sachs
that depressed their first quarter earnings was for exactly this type
of screwing around


BTW I was reading an old Fortune magazine at Jury duty today (jan/feb
2010) and they had a list of the funds that did get it right this
year, one was up 265%. They also listed 1000 with their results for a
year and 3 years. I was looking at the Fidelity funds and most of them
were up this year, about half up over the last 3.
I guess I will dig out my 401k statement and see how it really did.
I know the last time I looked it was double what it was when I stopped
contributing in 1996.

too bad the right wing destroyed the pension system in this country
and let the rich replace it with 401k's.



For those of in demand for jobs, 401k's were great. I was with NCR for
17.5 years. Defined benefit plan and I get $234 a month when I turned
65. Other than one company, TI, I never would have got a pension. As did
not stay long enough to be vested. I did startups and small companies
mostly. Still get head hunters calls and I have been retired 8 years.
That 401K match or extra allowed me to have a large retirement backup.
Luckily the non retirement investments, and SS pay for my retirement
costs, so the 401K money still keeps growing. I invested in less risk
items in the IRA's etc. So did not lose the 60% you did. I figured out
that I have to watch out for myself. As I am the one most interested in
my money. Tip: Invest in oil health and sin. They always seem to pay. In
2002 I bought MO. I think it was Loogie who said bad investment. Bad
advice. Still pays near 5% dividend and value has gone up at least 300%.
I am against smoking, but have no qualms about profiting on people
burning up money.

I had MO in 1996 in the low 20's, sweet dividend too. And sold in
about the $55 range in 2004 when I started my exist out of USD. Was a
sweet ride. Might be a good buy here, but figure if I wait, might snag
it at $17 or so. Not liking the numbers I see heading into the fall.

--

Government has liberals, idealists and lawyers, but where is the
common sense?

MO has divested of Kraft, so I now have KFT. And MO is only part of
Altria now. They split the company and formed a European company.
Protects them from all the US lawsuits. Separate company. so now that
$55 mo is $21 MO 6.5% div, $51 PM 4.6% div, and some KFT $29 and 4% div.
Bought some HCP only pays 5% now. But was a $13 stock and paying 11% in
2002. But split 2:1 in 2004 and is now $31. Put those stocks in the
IRA's. High dividend REIT's, etc.

Didn't know that. Haven't followed them much since they also let go of
Miller Brewing company. They had well run financial group which
attracted me, but began selling all financial stuff in 2004. Have only
dipped in a few forgn banks in the last year, for profit of course.

Should take another look...
--

Government has liberals, idealists and lawyers, but where is the common
sense?

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:08:42 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:20:56 -0400, wrote:


too bad the right wing destroyed the pension system in this country
and let the rich replace it with 401k's.



For those of in demand for jobs, 401k's were great. I was with NCR for 17.5
years.

no one cares about you. there are 100,000,000 americans who are as
self absorbed as you are.

less than 50% of companies even have a pension plan. and with the
massive turnovers in jobs, no one stays at a company long enough to
collect a pension.

the right has, at every turn, gutted the ability of the middle class
to earn a living wage or have a decent retirement

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:08:42 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:20:56 -0400, wrote:


too bad the right wing destroyed the pension system in this country
and let the rich replace it with 401k's.



For those of in demand for jobs, 401k's were great. I was with NCR for
17.5
years.

no one cares about you. there are 100,000,000 americans who are as
self absorbed as you are.

less than 50% of companies even have a pension plan. and with the
massive turnovers in jobs, no one stays at a company long enough to
collect a pension.

the right has, at every turn, gutted the ability of the middle class
to earn a living wage or have a decent retirement


Yup, no one cares about you and your finances. Even your 401k manager. So
you better learn to care for yourself. As my TI in USAF basic said, if you
can not take care of yourself, you can not take care of your buddy. And
those job changes and no able to vest in a pension makes 401k's even better.
As Gretwell says, look at your choices. The middle class has a living wage.
By definition they live in the middle. The problem you babyboomers /
GenXers have decided that a living wage is $200,000 a year. You have to be
able to afford a nice couple cars, nice boat, 3000 sq ft. home, and a 3 week
vacation in some really nice 4 star place. You are in error.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:51:31 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:08:42 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



no one cares about you. there are 100,000,000 americans who are as
self absorbed as you are.

less than 50% of companies even have a pension plan. and with the
massive turnovers in jobs, no one stays at a company long enough to
collect a pension.

the right has, at every turn, gutted the ability of the middle class
to earn a living wage or have a decent retirement


Yup, no one cares about you and your finances. Even your 401k manager.

absolutely true. but i care about the 100M americans in similar shape,
and how the right wing continues to sell us down the river

So
you better learn to care for yourself.

gee. guess you haven't noticed i am. first step

destroy the rigth wing.

THAT is taking care of myself!

As my TI in USAF basic said, if you
can not take care of yourself, you can not take care of your buddy. And
those job changes and no able to vest in a pension makes 401k's even better.
As Gretwell says, look at your choices. The middle class has a living wage.

bull****. it DIDNT have a living wage. THAT'S the problem! it hasnt
had a real wage increase on 10 years.

any other fairy tales you want to spread?

By definition they live in the middle. The problem you babyboomers /
GenXers have decided that a living wage is $200,000 a year. You have to be
able to afford a nice couple cars, nice boat, 3000 sq ft. home, and a 3 week
vacation in some really nice 4 star place. You are in error.


ah. blame the middle class. that's the right wing solution to
everyting.

protect the rich

blame the middle class

On 21/07/2010 3:26 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:51:31 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:08:42 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:



no one cares about you. there are 100,000,000 americans who are as
self absorbed as you are.

less than 50% of companies even have a pension plan. and with the
massive turnovers in jobs, no one stays at a company long enough to
collect a pension.

the right has, at every turn, gutted the ability of the middle class
to earn a living wage or have a decent retirement


Yup, no one cares about you and your finances. Even your 401k manager.

absolutely true. but i care about the 100M americans in similar shape,
and how the right wing continues to sell us down the river

So
you better learn to care for yourself.

gee. guess you haven't noticed i am. first step

destroy the rigth wing.

THAT is taking care of myself!

As my TI in USAF basic said, if you
can not take care of yourself, you can not take care of your buddy. And
those job changes and no able to vest in a pension makes 401k's even better.
As Gretwell says, look at your choices. The middle class has a living wage.

bull****. it DIDNT have a living wage. THAT'S the problem! it hasnt
had a real wage increase on 10 years.

any other fairy tales you want to spread?

By definition they live in the middle. The problem you babyboomers /
GenXers have decided that a living wage is $200,000 a year. You have to be
able to afford a nice couple cars, nice boat, 3000 sq ft. home, and a 3 week
vacation in some really nice 4 star place. You are in error.


ah. blame the middle class. that's the right wing solution to
everyting.

protect the rich

blame the middle class

CalifBill said it right, no one gives a crap that you lost. And you
lost because you were stupid.

--

Government has liberals, idealists and lawyers, but where is the common
sense?

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:22:20 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 21/07/2010 3:26 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:51:31 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:


bull****. it DIDNT have a living wage. THAT'S the problem! it hasnt
had a real wage increase on 10 years.

any other fairy tales you want to spread?

By definition they live in the middle. The problem you babyboomers /
GenXers have decided that a living wage is $200,000 a year. You have to be
able to afford a nice couple cars, nice boat, 3000 sq ft. home, and a 3 week
vacation in some really nice 4 star place. You are in error.


ah. blame the middle class. that's the right wing solution to
everyting.

protect the rich

blame the middle class

CalifBill said it right, no one gives a crap that you lost. And you
lost because you were stupid.

no, i lost because i was middle class. you seem to forget that there
are 100M in the same shape i'm in

but, then, you're right wing. the problems of the middle class dont
interest you at all. not a bit