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#51
posted to alt.zen,alt.philosophy.zen,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,rec.boats
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No living entity "benefits" by coming into existence
On 2/07/2010 8:13 AM, bundling snowfalls wrote:
On 2/07/2010 8:08 AM, zenworm wrote: On Jul 1, 6:22 pm, bundling wrote: On 2/07/2010 12:46 AM, zenworm wrote: On Jul 1, 10:49 am, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 10:41 PM, zenworm wrote: On Jul 1, 10:04 am, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 10:01 PM, zenworm wrote: On Jun 30, 6:00 pm, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 5:56 AM, zenworm wrote: On Jun 30, 5:51 pm, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 5:39 AM, zenworm wrote: On Jun 30, 2:34 pm, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 2:29 AM, oxtail wrote: bundling snowfalls wrote: On 1/07/2010 2:04 AM, oxtail wrote: bundling snowfalls wrote: On 1/07/2010 1:56 AM, oxtail wrote: Fred C. Dobbs wrote: A benefit is something that improves the welfare of an entity. Prior to its existence, there is no entity and thus no welfare, so coming into existence cannot improve an entity's welfare. We do not "give the gift of life" to livestock animals by breeding them into existence; we do not do them any "favor". We facilitate their existence, but that existence is not a gift or benefit to them. No matter how pleasant their lives might be once they do exist, existence itself is not a benefit to them. No harm would be inflicted on any animals if, suddenly and for whatever reason, we were to stop breeding livestock animals into existence. The fact that "billions of farm animals" would thereby never exist would have no moral meaning to any animals. There would not be any lack of consideration shown. If you are not smart enough to be concerned about the welfare of sentient beings to be born in the future, you have no business to worry about what other people do or think. of course the welfare matters you idiot. it's about the existence of them in future. in particular, existence being bred for meat. grow up you guys, that's about enough. You are not getting it. This is about how to think well and whether life is sacred. just a period of pain on earth. But necessary to be enlightened. the unborn don't give a flying ****. for the birds? ^~ i'm a good aim with a rifle and i shot a bird on my best friends farm one day, glad i did it. i see how superficial the joy i was having was compared to the life i took, or just winged it? there was no joy anymore for me. Perhaps all 'sin' can be summed up in one word: "waste". ^~ yes. there are better things to do than being shot or eaten i'm sure. none escape the worms ^~ but i'm ever so fresh "yes. there are better things to do than being shot or eaten i'm sure." certainty? 100%? "better"? 1 - birth(procreation) 2 - eat(consume)& breed(procreate) 3 - death(being consumed) What else is there? Is there anything other than consumption and procreation? ^~ I've been over this. From a point of view upholding the values of an animal as "life" the process of life appears rather empty, hold onto that child inside because when it is gone you are dead. Dying Animals. Life continues on and this is by procreation but the purpose of "breeding" is beyond exist- ence it's also an evolution of the forms... and in the forms Light and Life stay fresh. You appear to be taking the darker pov and I suppose the emptiness appears "spiritual". It's a vague matter for me, but it opposes a far more vibrant view of the universe. "the purpose of "breeding" is beyond existence it's also an evolution of the forms... and in the forms Light and Life stay fresh." so life is sacred to a purpose of evolution? given that evolution is better served the greater the diversity and population, that means there is a definitive benefit to that purpose(evolution), of having more species and more animals alive breeding in the purpose of evolution. in short: greater biomass + greater biodiversity = greater advantage to evolution = a benefit to all life existent and not yet existent yah..... i like to make things nice before the bubby gets here, that is not to say it's beneficial to exist opposed to not existing but it is to exist well, versus existing unwell. more options = advantage/benefit? is the advancement of evolution a benefit/advantage for the forms that have not yet come into existence? ^~ once they come into existence? from where? ^~ i believe in reincarnation. but let's snip out the vegetarian group. cough. prior to that? stuff. we come from stuff that is not organized as beings. except for the semen i suppose. prior to everything? it's a mystery? prior to existence we come from "prior to existence", if there was such a thing, assuming so. i believe in reincarnation, so prior to physical existence i believe many of us probably coulda maybe existed already. then it could well be a benefit or a suffering to the individual to be born. in my opinion it isn't either 100%. |
#52
posted to alt.zen,alt.philosophy.zen,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,rec.boats
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No living entity "benefits" by coming into existence
On 2/07/2010 8:18 AM, bundling snowfalls wrote:
On 2/07/2010 8:13 AM, bundling snowfalls wrote: On 2/07/2010 8:08 AM, zenworm wrote: On Jul 1, 6:22 pm, bundling wrote: On 2/07/2010 12:46 AM, zenworm wrote: On Jul 1, 10:49 am, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 10:41 PM, zenworm wrote: On Jul 1, 10:04 am, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 10:01 PM, zenworm wrote: On Jun 30, 6:00 pm, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 5:56 AM, zenworm wrote: On Jun 30, 5:51 pm, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 5:39 AM, zenworm wrote: On Jun 30, 2:34 pm, bundling wrote: On 1/07/2010 2:29 AM, oxtail wrote: bundling snowfalls wrote: On 1/07/2010 2:04 AM, oxtail wrote: bundling snowfalls wrote: On 1/07/2010 1:56 AM, oxtail wrote: Fred C. Dobbs wrote: A benefit is something that improves the welfare of an entity. Prior to its existence, there is no entity and thus no welfare, so coming into existence cannot improve an entity's welfare. We do not "give the gift of life" to livestock animals by breeding them into existence; we do not do them any "favor". We facilitate their existence, but that existence is not a gift or benefit to them. No matter how pleasant their lives might be once they do exist, existence itself is not a benefit to them. No harm would be inflicted on any animals if, suddenly and for whatever reason, we were to stop breeding livestock animals into existence. The fact that "billions of farm animals" would thereby never exist would have no moral meaning to any animals. There would not be any lack of consideration shown. If you are not smart enough to be concerned about the welfare of sentient beings to be born in the future, you have no business to worry about what other people do or think. of course the welfare matters you idiot. it's about the existence of them in future. in particular, existence being bred for meat. grow up you guys, that's about enough. You are not getting it. This is about how to think well and whether life is sacred. just a period of pain on earth. But necessary to be enlightened. the unborn don't give a flying ****. for the birds? ^~ i'm a good aim with a rifle and i shot a bird on my best friends farm one day, glad i did it. i see how superficial the joy i was having was compared to the life i took, or just winged it? there was no joy anymore for me. Perhaps all 'sin' can be summed up in one word: "waste". ^~ yes. there are better things to do than being shot or eaten i'm sure. none escape the worms ^~ but i'm ever so fresh "yes. there are better things to do than being shot or eaten i'm sure." certainty? 100%? "better"? 1 - birth(procreation) 2 - eat(consume)& breed(procreate) 3 - death(being consumed) What else is there? Is there anything other than consumption and procreation? ^~ I've been over this. From a point of view upholding the values of an animal as "life" the process of life appears rather empty, hold onto that child inside because when it is gone you are dead. Dying Animals. Life continues on and this is by procreation but the purpose of "breeding" is beyond exist- ence it's also an evolution of the forms... and in the forms Light and Life stay fresh. You appear to be taking the darker pov and I suppose the emptiness appears "spiritual". It's a vague matter for me, but it opposes a far more vibrant view of the universe. "the purpose of "breeding" is beyond existence it's also an evolution of the forms... and in the forms Light and Life stay fresh." so life is sacred to a purpose of evolution? given that evolution is better served the greater the diversity and population, that means there is a definitive benefit to that purpose(evolution), of having more species and more animals alive breeding in the purpose of evolution. in short: greater biomass + greater biodiversity = greater advantage to evolution = a benefit to all life existent and not yet existent yah..... i like to make things nice before the bubby gets here, that is not to say it's beneficial to exist opposed to not existing but it is to exist well, versus existing unwell. more options = advantage/benefit? is the advancement of evolution a benefit/advantage for the forms that have not yet come into existence? ^~ once they come into existence? from where? ^~ i believe in reincarnation. but let's snip out the vegetarian group. cough. prior to that? stuff. we come from stuff that is not organized as beings. except for the semen i suppose. prior to everything? it's a mystery? prior to existence we come from "prior to existence", if there was such a thing, assuming so. i believe in reincarnation, so prior to physical existence i believe many of us probably coulda maybe existed already. then it could well be a benefit or a suffering to the individual to be born. in my opinion it isn't either 100%. by i may be overestimating the standards of my soul brothers and sisters out thar. |
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