"Larry" wrote in message
...
Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 28, 1:19 am, wrote:

"Bill wrote in message

m...








wrote in message
...

I read the wiki on diesels, and I think I read that if a diesel is
running, then it doesn't need a spark (e.g., battery energy) to keep
running. If that's the case, then it seems like you should be able to
start a diesel by hand, assuming you have the muscle or leverage. So,
in
the former case, even if your battery died - perhaps got wet and
shorted
out - then the engine would keep running. In the latter situation if
the
battery was already dead, you might be able to crank it to start it.


--
Nom=de=Plume


In the old days you could do just that. Any modern diesel has
electronic
controls.

I guess you're unable to understand what I wrote. Did I mention recently
that you're an idiot?

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bill answered your post correctly. Why the hatred?

She lives for confrontation.

And, you're brain dead!

I read the wiki on diesels, and I think I read that if a diesel is
running, then it doesn't need a spark (e.g., battery energy) to keep
running. If that's the case, then it seems like you should be able to
start a diesel by hand, assuming you have the muscle or leverage. So, in
the former case, even if your battery died - perhaps got wet and shorted
out - then the engine would keep running. In the latter situation if the
battery was already dead, you might be able to crank it to start it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Depends on the diesel. When I was a commercial diver, we had Lister single
piston diesel engines for dive air compressors. We hand cranked them, and
there was not one wire on them. Boy, the new three cylinder Perkins with
the air start were a sweet change! But I have started that Perkins by hand
more than twice. Just get up enough rpm before you throw the lever.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 19:43:02 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I read the wiki on diesels, and I think I read that if a diesel is running,
then it doesn't need a spark (e.g., battery energy) to keep running. If
that's the case, then it seems like you should be able to start a diesel by
hand, assuming you have the muscle or leverage. So, in the former case, even
if your battery died - perhaps got wet and shorted out - then the engine
would keep running. In the latter situation if the battery was already dead,
you might be able to crank it to start it.

It's not that simple. Motors have brains now and that brain often
controls both fuel, spark and timing -- and needs to be powered.

If your diesel was a throwback of many decades, you'd be right.

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 19:43:02 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I read the wiki on diesels, and I think I read that if a diesel is
running,
then it doesn't need a spark (e.g., battery energy) to keep running. If
that's the case, then it seems like you should be able to start a diesel
by
hand, assuming you have the muscle or leverage. So, in the former case,
even
if your battery died - perhaps got wet and shorted out - then the engine
would keep running. In the latter situation if the battery was already
dead,
you might be able to crank it to start it.

It's not that simple. Motors have brains now and that brain often
controls both fuel, spark and timing -- and needs to be powered.

If your diesel was a throwback of many decades, you'd be right.


Interesting. No spark though on the diesel required or has that changed as
well? So, it wouldn't be possible to hand start it, but would it keep
running? Seems like it would be capable of generating it's own electricity,
much like a car engine charges the battery via the alternator. How many
amps/volts would be needed to retain its ability to control fuel, timing,
etc? Seems like it wouldn't require the same amperage that a starting
battery is capable of, so wouldn't a small, dedicated "engine function"
battery suffice?

Ok, I'm no diesel mechanic...

--
Nom=de=Plume

nom=de=plume wrote:


Ok, I'm no diesel mechanic...


And neither are those who give you half-assed answers.
Yanmar still sells a 10 horse with hand cranking.
Bigger engines usually aren't hand cranked because it's just too hard to
do, but you can get this
http://www.springstarter.com/application_guide.asp
Starts bigger diesels than you'll normally have in a boat.
If it has a compression release, it can normally be spun up to start
without a battery.
But if it needs juice for any controls, you'll need the juice.
Just have to know what you're getting.
They call that specificity. It usually works.

Jim - Just trying to bring some sense into a useless exchange of non-ideas.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:


Ok, I'm no diesel mechanic...


And neither are those who give you half-assed answers.
Yanmar still sells a 10 horse with hand cranking.
Bigger engines usually aren't hand cranked because it's just too hard to
do, but you can get this
http://www.springstarter.com/application_guide.asp
Starts bigger diesels than you'll normally have in a boat.
If it has a compression release, it can normally be spun up to start
without a battery.
But if it needs juice for any controls, you'll need the juice.
Just have to know what you're getting.
They call that specificity. It usually works.

Jim - Just trying to bring some sense into a useless exchange of
non-ideas.




Interesting... thanks for the link!

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 23:26:24 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Ok, I'm no diesel mechanic...

I think you've made that perfectly clear. Now you need to develop
some listening skills.

On Apr 28, 9:13*am, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 23:26:24 -0700, "nom=de=plume"





wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 19:43:02 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I read the wiki on diesels, and I think I read that if a diesel is
running,
then it doesn't need a spark (e.g., battery energy) to keep running. If
that's the case, then it seems like you should be able to start a diesel
by
hand, assuming you have the muscle or leverage. So, in the former case,
even
if your battery died - perhaps got wet and shorted out - then the engine
would keep running. In the latter situation if the battery was already
dead,
you might be able to crank it to start it.

It's not that simple. *Motors have brains now and that brain often
controls both fuel, spark and timing -- and needs to be powered.

If your diesel was a throwback of many decades, you'd be right.

Interesting. No spark though on the diesel required or has that changed as
well? So, it wouldn't be possible to hand start it, but would it keep
running? Seems like it would be capable of generating it's own electricity,
much like a car engine charges the battery via the alternator. How many
amps/volts would be needed to retain its ability to control fuel, timing,
etc? Seems like it wouldn't require the same amperage that a starting
battery is capable of, so wouldn't a small, dedicated "engine function"
battery suffice?

Ok, I'm no diesel mechanic...

Even a car with an alternator needs some little bit of battery power
to get going. The alternator will not put out until you excite the
field, something I found out when I built thishttp://gfretwell.com/electrical/redneck_power.jpg
Hence the little Gel Cell.

Now back in the olden days when motor cycles had generators they did
build choppers with no battery, usually based on Triumphs, that only
had a tomato paste can sized capacitor stuffed in there somewhere to
hold enough power to get it going.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But the usually did that on the Brit bikes because the Lucas charging
system was too unreliable. The old saying about Joseph Lucas LTD was
true. They didn't call him the 'Prince of Darkness' for nothing.

wrote:

Even a car with an alternator needs some little bit of battery power
to get going. The alternator will not put out until you excite the
field, something I found out when I built this
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/redneck_power.jpg
Hence the little Gel Cell.

Now back in the olden days when motor cycles had generators they did
build choppers with no battery, usually based on Triumphs, that only
had a tomato paste can sized capacitor stuffed in there somewhere to
hold enough power to get it going.

Looks like a pressure washer turned into a generator?

On Apr 28, 8:00*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 19:54:07 -0400, Larry
wrote:

wrote:

Even a car with an alternator needs some little bit of battery power
to get going. The alternator will not put out until you excite the
field, something I found out when I built this
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/redneck_power.jpg
Hence the little Gel Cell.

Now back in the olden days when motor cycles had generators they did
build choppers with no battery, usually based on Triumphs, that only
had a tomato paste can sized capacitor stuffed in there somewhere to
hold enough power to get it going.

Looks like a pressure washer turned into a generator?

Yup, the Honda engine far outlasted the Cat pump. It is still a "first
pull" engine. Howie is right, that is something GM can't compete with.

Both my sailboats original Yanmar 1GM 6.5 hp diesel and its 13 hp 2
cylinder 2GM replacement have a crank that fits on the crankshaft that
supposedly allows hand cranking. I have tried to do so by relieving
the compression but she stops dead when the compression starts. It is
possible that the cranki ng position is too awkward to get good
leverage because it seems it ought to work.
I do know that old Lister diesels could be started by turning the
flywheel by hand, no battery required at all nor alternator. These
diesels are still available as stationary engines for generators and
will run on nearly any oil including cooking oil and even turpentine.
I have heard of people getting used engine oil and running the Listers
on it. Many old commercial fishing boats used Lister diesels and had
no batteries.