On 4/12/10 11:45 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:28:34 -0400,
wrote:

autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable.What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.


You really do not know what you are talking about in your last
sentence, nor do you have any understanding of the severely adversarial
relationship that has existed between the UAW and the employers of its
members for many, many generations, going back to the 1930's and the
Ford Motor Company attacks on union members, organizers and
pamphleteers. The employers have never let up for a moment in their
attempts to bust the unions. In other parts of the world, the
relationship between the manufacturers and the unions, while adversarial
in many countries, is quite different.

The auto manufacturers in this country got precisely the relationship
with the unions that they deserved.

Quality control at an auto plant is entirely the function of management.






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http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:46:29 -0400, hk
wrote:

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable.What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.


You really do not know what you are talking about in your last
sentence, nor do you have any understanding of the severely adversarial
relationship that has existed between the UAW and the employers of its
members for many, many generations, going back to the 1930's and the
Ford Motor Company attacks on union members, organizers and
pamphleteers. The employers have never let up for a moment in their
attempts to bust the unions.

1930s ?

That's like red necks still fighting the civil war 150 years later.
It's time to move on into the 21st century.

GM and Ford could have busted the unions any time they were willing to
take the big strike and start sub-contracting out major
sub-assemblies to non-union suppliers. The short term profit motive
and politics always won out. The UAW would target the weakest of the
three sisters and everyone else would fall into line.

On 12/04/2010 11:46 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 11:45 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:28:34 -0400,
wrote:

autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable.What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.


You really do not know what you are talking about in your last
sentence, nor do you have any understanding of the severely adversarial
relationship that has existed between the UAW and the employers of its
members for many, many generations, going back to the 1930's and the
Ford Motor Company attacks on union members, organizers and
pamphleteers. The employers have never let up for a moment in their
attempts to bust the unions. In other parts of the world, the
relationship between the manufacturers and the unions, while adversarial
in many countries, is quite different.

The auto manufacturers in this country got precisely the relationship
with the unions that they deserved.

Quality control at an auto plant is entirely the function of management.

Tehn they should fire everyone that isn't management and hire "contract"
term managers. If they don't get with the plan, then don't renew the 6
month contract.

Less benefits and severance that way too.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

On 12/04/2010 9:45 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:28:34 -0400,
wrote:

autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable. What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.

Had some personal experience with a related union like that.

Had a robot that could reduce defects from 5000 per million ot 30 per
million and make it in 1/10th the time.

Just before the demo I watched in the corner of my eye as a union guy
"tripped" over the power cord. Being previously in a union shop I know
it as "spiking". But I was prepared. During the presentation to
management I calmly waked over and said "Well we do need to learn to
plug these in...and smiled as I knew it would boot and run as I had
tested it. The show went off like a dream. They bought it and we had
it up and running for a month.

Heard 6 months later they turned it off for "spiking". 1 year later the
plant went to Asia.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

On 12/04/2010 9:28 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 11:18 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Union made with the help of bad management. What a recipe for
disaster.


Your naivete is boundless. German autoworkers, Japanese autoworkers,
Spanish autoworkers, in fact, autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.

Ferrari was profitable when they were non-union.

Japanese union is involved in making the company and customer satisfied
with the quality. Often dealing with a lazy screw up before management
gets to him.

Don't know about Spanish and German auto, but from other manufacturing,
Germans work smart.

$80/hr to sit on your ass in Detroit is what happened.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

On 12/04/2010 9:18 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Union made with the help of bad management. What a recipe for
disaster.

Now add corrupt politicians.

GM will now be worse than ever.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

guess he doesnt know the countries with best healthcare are all
'socialized'.

oh well...the right is never big on thinking

and both GM and chrysler are privately held...

On 12/04/2010 8:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

And you should see the gubimints planed increase in taxes!!!

Welcome to marxism and statism.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.