On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:24:37 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 12/04/2010 4:35 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:17:27 -0400, wrote:


uh no. the market is still about 35% below where it was at 14,000

I am just a dumb old working class redneck and I did fine.
I am sitting an a couple "doubles" and a "triple".

that you're dumb is simply fact.

that you're a redneck is beyond dispute.

that your 401K has recovered simply means you had no investments to
begin with.

Then fire your money manager. I have 3 pools of US investments.

The smallest and worst performer is up only 10% from its prior peek.
The largest and actively managed is up 30% from prior peaks. The worst
performing pool of funds I have is foreign, only up 2% from prior peeks.

So ask your money manager why you should be paying him?

because i work for a living. wall street told 100,000,000 middle class
americans that we didn't need pensions. they TRIED, with bush, to tell
us we didn't need social security. they left us ONLY 401k's.

i don't have the time to work AND to watch wall street. so now it's
time to **** wall street and regulate the **** out of them

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:16:29 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 12/04/2010 3:37 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:44:06 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch


Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.

really? if unregulated capitalism is so great...

why isn't lehman brothers around to tell us? what happened to the 9
trillion in 401K's and other investments that wall street told us were
safe?

Lehman isn't arround as they didn't have the right super rich depositors
that Obama, democrat congress and Bush wanted to bailout.

ROFLMAO!!! lehman collapsed under BUSH!! they collapsed because the
free market folks followed YOUR idea...and that led immediately to the
threat of a meltdown.

so your idea is just plain...stupid.


Carlyle got Lehman's assets for a penny on the dollar, which is where a
lot of the bailout money disappeared to. Even at 10 cents on the dollar
for the Lehamn bonds Carlyle made a bundle. You should look up Carlyle
Groups relationship with the ultra rich and GM.

you should look up the market crash of 29. might learn something

On 12/04/2010 10:01 AM, Jack wrote:
On Apr 12, 11:17 am, John wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:28 am, wrote:
Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Ford deserved kudos not only because they didn't take any fed money,
but also because their quality is now better than the rest, including
Toyota.

Meanwhile GM posted a 4.3 billion dollar loss for the second half of
2009. That butt-ugly Camaro is not going to save them.

My Dutch friend, a very liberal guy, commented that the European news is talking
about how much the US news is coming out against Toyota...with little or no
mention of the other car makers' recalls. They attribute it to the power of the
UAW and the attitude of the American press.

Well of course the Europeans will say it's the bad Americans that are
being unfair... they have their own attitudes. It's pretty common
knowledge that the Japanese auto makers have operated using "secret
recalls" and warranties for years. They tend to try to save face,
when the US car makers were compelled by closer scrutiny here in the
states to issue public recalls.

Many people love their Hondas, but the one Honda I've owned was the
most troublesome car I've owned. It had more issues than the two
Explorers that came after it.

Remind your friend of the US press going after Ford in the Explorer
roll-over fiasco. That was trumped-up BS... I hit a chunk of metal on
the interstate running 75mph. It hit the front diff, bounced off the
gas tank skid plate, and cut a four inch gash in my left rear tire,
deflating it instantly. I lifted off the gas, drifted over to the
emergency lane, and changed my tire. No drama. The Explorer was no
worse than any other SUV for instability, it was just the most
popular, with so many on the road the rate of occurance was high. I
think it was Car and Driver who rigged up a tire on an Explorer to
deflate instantly, and they did a series of tests that showed it was
stable. Drivers simply over reacted and caused them to crash.

Agree on the UAW though... they are corruption defined.

But their days still could be numbered. Many of us, like me, will no
longer buy a vehicle if i think it has just once UAW/CAW part in it.

Something about picking my tax pocket with huge debts and then asking me
to buy their crappy product just gets me angry.

99% of us in these tiems didn't get a bailout.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:26:46 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

On Apr 12, 9:45*pm, bpuharic wrote:

Tell that to my ex wife, who worked for GM at the Lordstown OH plant.
She's told me the stories about how the workers used to screw GM over
for fun, and then sit back and let the union save their jobs, again
and again. She intentionally shut down the line one day, and GM
couldn't fire her. She knew that, and she and the rest of the union
pukes took full advantage of it. There's your quality control, and
why GM lost another 4.8 billion in the last 6 months.

tell that to wall street. your wife didn't treat my 401K like a baby
treats a diaper.

i'd trust america to the UAW before i'd trust it to wall street any
day.

On 12/04/2010 9:18 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Union made with the help of bad management. What a recipe for
disaster.

Now add corrupt politicians.

GM will now be worse than ever.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

On 12/04/2010 9:28 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 11:18 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Union made with the help of bad management. What a recipe for
disaster.


Your naivete is boundless. German autoworkers, Japanese autoworkers,
Spanish autoworkers, in fact, autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.

Ferrari was profitable when they were non-union.

Japanese union is involved in making the company and customer satisfied
with the quality. Often dealing with a lazy screw up before management
gets to him.

Don't know about Spanish and German auto, but from other manufacturing,
Germans work smart.

$80/hr to sit on your ass in Detroit is what happened.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

On Apr 12, 9:00*pm, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 6:16 PM, Wayne.B wrote:





On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:46:29 -0400,
wrote:

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. * The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable.What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
* track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
* improvements in productivity.

You really do not know what you are talking about in your last
sentence, nor do you have any understanding of the severely adversarial
relationship that has existed between the UAW and the employers of its
members for many, many generations, going back to the 1930's and the
Ford Motor Company attacks on union members, organizers and
pamphleteers. The employers have never let up for a moment in their
attempts to bust the unions.

1930s ?

That's like red necks still fighting the civil war 150 years later.
It's time to move on into the 21st century.

GM and Ford could have busted the unions any time they were willing to
take the big strike and start sub-contracting out *major
sub-assemblies to non-union suppliers. *The short term profit motive
and politics always won out. *The UAW would target the weakest of the
three sisters and everyone else would fall into line.

U.S. automaker policy towards unions has not changed since the 1930's.
It's still relevant.

The union's policy against the very mouths that feed them has not
changed in as many years, Lunacy.


And the rednecks are still fighting the civil war 150 years later...you
need look no farther than the state of virginia and the teabaggers.

Yet it is still the same old scalawags and carpetbaggers that continue
to propagate the civil war. It's over. Get it?

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news
On 12/04/2010 3:36 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:55:18 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.


Wow... so, because GM is using some gov't money to get back to business,
you're advocating buying foreign????


The strange thing is a Toyota may have as much American content as a
Chevy ... but we bought a Ford (made in Canada, 55% US parts)

Actually, if you look it up, often Toyota has much more labour AND parts
from North America than GM. And if you look up where Toyota is having
problems, the problem parts were made in North America....

Quite a bit of BS and hypocracy from the leftist lunch bucket BSers.
--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.


Right on... blame the Americans. Good show about how you're so pro-American.
USA, USA, USA!

--
Nom=de=Plume

On 12/04/2010 9:45 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:28:34 -0400,
wrote:

autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable. What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.

Had some personal experience with a related union like that.

Had a robot that could reduce defects from 5000 per million ot 30 per
million and make it in 1/10th the time.

Just before the demo I watched in the corner of my eye as a union guy
"tripped" over the power cord. Being previously in a union shop I know
it as "spiking". But I was prepared. During the presentation to
management I calmly waked over and said "Well we do need to learn to
plug these in...and smiled as I knew it would boot and run as I had
tested it. The show went off like a dream. They bought it and we had
it up and running for a month.

Heard 6 months later they turned it off for "spiking". 1 year later the
plant went to Asia.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

On Apr 12, 11:34*pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:26:46 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

On Apr 12, 9:45*pm, bpuharic wrote:

Tell that to my ex wife, who worked for GM at the Lordstown OH plant.
She's told me the stories about how the workers used to screw GM over
for fun, and then sit back and let the union save their jobs, again
and again. *She intentionally shut down the line one day, and GM
couldn't fire her. *She knew that, and she and the rest of the union
pukes took full advantage of it. *There's your quality control, and
why GM lost another 4.8 billion in the last 6 months.

tell that to wall street. your wife didn't treat my 401K like a baby
treats a diaper.

i'd trust america to the UAW before i'd trust it to wall street any
day.

My 401k has bounced back nicely. But then again, I didn't raid it to
pay for an over-leveraged house, two big cars I couldn't afford, and
work myself into a dead-end job that I expected the union to protect
me from losing.

I took care of myself, was responsible, and am sitting in good shape.
It's called personal responsibility. Scary stuff for a liberal.