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#1
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:54:20 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote: On Mar 22, 12:08*pm, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:33:46 -0400, hk wrote: ...health care insurance reform, from David Frum: * *Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. * * It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But: * * (1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs. * * (2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now. * * So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson: * * A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves. * * I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds. * * No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the "doughnut hole" and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal? * * We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat. ... And the frosting on the cake? The incredibly horrid behavior of the teabagging Republicans the last couple of weeks. Welcome to the modern Republian Party. *It's a big, stupid tent. You know, the more I read of your BS liberal posts, the more I get a mental image of a Keith Olbermann wannabe. Makes me want to puke. You're a blowhard, yuppie, liberal snob, idiot. Plain and simple. Do us all a favor and try to be a real, down-to-earth person for a change. Believe it or not, you'll actually feel better about yourself. The majority of Americans *did or do not* support the recent health care reform legislation. They passed it anyway through back-room deals. Are you so "enlightened" that you know better than than the majority of Americans? Mike You listen to and take in too much ****, ****-for-brains. Most Americans favor health care reform, always did and will. Read whatever drivel you want, don't bother reading mine. Silly ass. |
#2
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:54:20 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote: On Mar 22, 12:08*pm, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:33:46 -0400, hk wrote: ...health care insurance reform, from David Frum: * *Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. * * It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But: * * (1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs. * * (2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now. * * So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson: * * A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves. * * I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds. * * No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the "doughnut hole" and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal? * * We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat. ... And the frosting on the cake? The incredibly horrid behavior of the teabagging Republicans the last couple of weeks. Welcome to the modern Republian Party. *It's a big, stupid tent. You know, the more I read of your BS liberal posts, the more I get a mental image of a Keith Olbermann wannabe. Makes me want to puke. You're a blowhard, yuppie, liberal snob, idiot. Plain and simple. Do us all a favor and try to be a real, down-to-earth person for a change. Believe it or not, you'll actually feel better about yourself. The majority of Americans *did or do not* support the recent health care reform legislation. They passed it anyway through back-room deals. Are you so "enlightened" that you know better than than the majority of Americans? Mike Sore loser. Obama and the rest of the country are rolling right over your pasty white ass. Read it and weep, little man. |
#3
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
"Mike" wrote in message
... On Mar 22, 12:08 pm, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:33:46 -0400, hk wrote: ...health care insurance reform, from David Frum: Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But: (1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs. (2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now. So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson: A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves. I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds. No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the "doughnut hole" and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal? We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat. ... And the frosting on the cake? The incredibly horrid behavior of the teabagging Republicans the last couple of weeks. Welcome to the modern Republian Party. It's a big, stupid tent. You know, the more I read of your BS liberal posts, the more I get a mental image of a Keith Olbermann wannabe. Makes me want to puke. You're a blowhard, yuppie, liberal snob, idiot. Plain and simple. Do us all a favor and try to be a real, down-to-earth person for a change. Believe it or not, you'll actually feel better about yourself. The majority of Americans *did or do not* support the recent health care reform legislation. They passed it anyway through back-room deals. Are you so "enlightened" that you know better than than the majority of Americans? Mike Reply: The poll you're referring to said that the a percentage didn't like the bill because it went too far... something like 45%. The rest either liked it or thought it didn't go far enough. So much for your enlightenment. -- Nom=de=Plume |
#4
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
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#5
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
wrote in message
... On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:53:18 -0400, hk wrote: My big problem with this legislation is it doesn't limit insurance premiums at all and I bet your "october surprise" will be what the 2011 rates are going to be for those 300 million that do have insurance. That will be what drives the election. Premium controls will be added. In fact, I suspect a number of items will individually be added. It'll be interesting to see the Republicans vote down all the individual measures to help Americans obtain and retain insurance at good prices. I don't think anyone actually trusts congress to do all the things they promise. After all the process is actually driven by billion dollar lobbyists. That is why thinking people dismiss all of those CBO projections. They are based on fantasy scenarios that are unlikely to happen, like cutting a half trillion out of Medicare. Bear in mind, Medicare ended up costing almost 10 times what the original CBO estimate had it at, out at the 10 year mark. Government programs always get bigger, not smaller. Yet, the corporations are legally allowed to pump as much money into the system as they want. The CBO is non-partisan and both sides of the isle refer to it. Medicare is fixable, and it's been amended several times. Republicans called that program communism also, but I don't see too many of the Teabaggers willing to give up the benefits. -- Nom=de=Plume |
#6
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:21:05 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:53:18 -0400, hk wrote: My big problem with this legislation is it doesn't limit insurance premiums at all and I bet your "october surprise" will be what the 2011 rates are going to be for those 300 million that do have insurance. That will be what drives the election. Premium controls will be added. In fact, I suspect a number of items will individually be added. It'll be interesting to see the Republicans vote down all the individual measures to help Americans obtain and retain insurance at good prices. I don't think anyone actually trusts congress to do all the things they promise. After all the process is actually driven by billion dollar lobbyists. That is why thinking people dismiss all of those CBO projections. They are based on fantasy scenarios that are unlikely to happen, like cutting a half trillion out of Medicare. Bear in mind, Medicare ended up costing almost 10 times what the original CBO estimate had it at, out at the 10 year mark. Government programs always get bigger, not smaller. Yet, the corporations are legally allowed to pump as much money into the system as they want. The CBO is non-partisan and both sides of the isle refer to it. Medicare is fixable, and it's been amended several times. Republicans called that program communism also, but I don't see too many of the Teabaggers willing to give up the benefits. I love the teabagger poster that read: "Don't steal money from Medicare to fund Health Care Socialism" Average IQ of a Teabagger? I'm betting they're on the lower end of the bell curve. Maybe the way lower end. |
#7
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
jps wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:21:05 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:53:18 -0400, hk wrote: My big problem with this legislation is it doesn't limit insurance premiums at all and I bet your "october surprise" will be what the 2011 rates are going to be for those 300 million that do have insurance. That will be what drives the election. Premium controls will be added. In fact, I suspect a number of items will individually be added. It'll be interesting to see the Republicans vote down all the individual measures to help Americans obtain and retain insurance at good prices. I don't think anyone actually trusts congress to do all the things they promise. After all the process is actually driven by billion dollar lobbyists. That is why thinking people dismiss all of those CBO projections. They are based on fantasy scenarios that are unlikely to happen, like cutting a half trillion out of Medicare. Bear in mind, Medicare ended up costing almost 10 times what the original CBO estimate had it at, out at the 10 year mark. Government programs always get bigger, not smaller. Yet, the corporations are legally allowed to pump as much money into the system as they want. The CBO is non-partisan and both sides of the isle refer to it. Medicare is fixable, and it's been amended several times. Republicans called that program communism also, but I don't see too many of the Teabaggers willing to give up the benefits. I love the teabagger poster that read: "Don't steal money from Medicare to fund Health Care Socialism" Average IQ of a Teabagger? I'm betting they're on the lower end of the bell curve. Maybe the way lower end. 10 sigma? |
#8
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
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#9
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
wrote in message
... On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:21:05 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: I don't think anyone actually trusts congress to do all the things they promise. After all the process is actually driven by billion dollar lobbyists. That is why thinking people dismiss all of those CBO projections. They are based on fantasy scenarios that are unlikely to happen, like cutting a half trillion out of Medicare. Bear in mind, Medicare ended up costing almost 10 times what the original CBO estimate had it at, out at the 10 year mark. Government programs always get bigger, not smaller. Yet, the corporations are legally allowed to pump as much money into the system as they want. The CBO is non-partisan and both sides of the isle refer to it. Medicare is fixable, and it's been amended several times. Republicans called that program communism also, but I don't see too many of the Teabaggers willing to give up the benefits. -- The problem is they can only project the effect on the budget based on the fantasy numbers the congress sends them. Things like saying they will actually cut Medicare by a half trillion. That will be "fixed" by eliminating the cuts. Umm... I don't think Congress sends them numbers. They send them policy/law statements. The CBO interprets the statements and makes a judgement about numbers. -- Nom=de=Plume |
#10
posted to rec.boats
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Conservative Comment on Passage of...
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