Airplane Security
 

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2009 6:53 AM, BAR wrote:
In inet,
says...

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:08:39 -0500, Jim wrote:


That is exactly one of the problems with profiling. You don't spend
20% of the resources. You spend 80% of the resources, and ignore all
the rest. Put two people on an airplane, one a young Muslim man, the
other an older white woman. The woman is carrying the bomb. While
all
the airport security focuses on the young Muslim man, the woman slips
on board.

Rediculous. You would never get a job as a profiler.

Yup, but consider, this last incident was caused by a black Nigerian,
not
an Arab. As I said before, if you want to profile a terrorist, fine,
but
if you think racial profiling is the answer, you are going to miss a
lot
of terrorists, McVeigh, the Unabomber, the Shoe Bomber, Black Widows,
etc., etc.

The majority religion in Nigeria is Islam.

AND a visit to Yemen...quick google search on "yemen terrorism" has quit
a few hits. Including a ship bombing.

This guy had terrorist almost written all over him.
Nigeria-Yemem-Amsterdam-Detroit isn't a common or direct flight plan.

Has anyone checked the thought that he might be an Obama relative coming
in for an auto exec position?

Hey, just asking.

Steve



Umm.... I think Obama was reported to be born in either Kenya or Australia.
I don't think Nigeria, Yemen, or The Netherlands are on the list.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Airplane Security
 

On 12/28/09 3:56 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2009 6:53 AM, BAR wrote:
In inet,
says...

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:08:39 -0500, Jim wrote:


That is exactly one of the problems with profiling. You don't spend
20% of the resources. You spend 80% of the resources, and ignore all
the rest. Put two people on an airplane, one a young Muslim man, the
other an older white woman. The woman is carrying the bomb. While
all
the airport security focuses on the young Muslim man, the woman slips
on board.

Rediculous. You would never get a job as a profiler.

Yup, but consider, this last incident was caused by a black Nigerian,
not
an Arab. As I said before, if you want to profile a terrorist, fine,
but
if you think racial profiling is the answer, you are going to miss a
lot
of terrorists, McVeigh, the Unabomber, the Shoe Bomber, Black Widows,
etc., etc.

The majority religion in Nigeria is Islam.

AND a visit to Yemen...quick google search on "yemen terrorism" has quit
a few hits. Including a ship bombing.

This guy had terrorist almost written all over him.
Nigeria-Yemem-Amsterdam-Detroit isn't a common or direct flight plan.

Has anyone checked the thought that he might be an Obama relative coming
in for an auto exec position?

Hey, just asking.

Steve



Umm.... I think Obama was reported to be born in either Kenya or Australia.
I don't think Nigeria, Yemen, or The Netherlands are on the list.



Ol Steve is just another right-wing racist bottom feeder. I'm sure you
picked up on that. If his kid is lucky, his wife will throw Steve out
before much more time elapses.

Airplane Security
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2009 12:36 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

Actiually, I blame peoples stupidity. But Obama be the one responsible
these days. I didn't agree with Bush's go at it either. Too many
purely
politicial barriers in doing this right.

I do as well. The person responsible for not putting this person on a
higher
level list should be fired and the protocols should be changed. Obama is,
ultimately, responsible. I think he gets that.

Problem is the administration will find some low level goat and blame
them. If they did fire someone over this I would pick management in
Amsterdam or Europe as the ideal targets.

I think it's doubtful that some high-level person in the administration had
anything specifically to do with this situation. It's likely a relatively
low-level person not doing the right thing, but we'll see.


People at the bottom of the food chain do what they are told or get fired.
The best they can be are as goats.

For example, why did it take so long to put locks on the cabin doors to
the pilots? Because big budgets and fast talk were more important than
reality.

Good question!

I asked it knowing the answer. It is because it was never about security,
it was about more controls over people. Getting tabs on American
citizens, non-terrorists going to the Caymans for tax evasion. Government
like the mafia, hates ibeing skimmed.

No, I think it was more about the expense to the airlines. That's what I
recall being the big deal at the time.


9/11 was terrorists, but gave the government a good excuse to water down
freedom, track peoples money and become bigger (statism).

Having a locked cockpit has been suggested for decades. Wasn't fancy sell
to politicians to do PR and BS with.

Talk a look at who they do catch, and always there is a person behind it
that takes there job seriously, including profiling and whatever they
can
use.

I don't agree with racial profiling, but I do agree with intelligent
profiling. Seems to me that if someone's father tells the embassy that
his
son is a threat, and then said son gets on a flight to the US, then he
should have at least been pulled from the line, strip searched,
questioned
for an extended period, etc. If it was a mistake (perhaps the father
over-reacted), then fine, he could have his clothes back and continue.

I too don't really like it, even though my profile would let me off the
hook. But the mathematics of probabilities say you must. What is more
important? Being effective or racially blind?

It's not about race. It's about intelligent profiling. It's about ensuring
that the people on the front lines have the right information and are
empowered to use it. Just because someone is black and from Nigeria isn't
enough. There needs to be some other factor.. e.g., no luggage, on a watch
list. Reading a Koran isn't enough, but e.g., screaming infidels must die
would be.


Islam/muslim culture often teaches facism and racism, certainly
intollerance as they tend to be the most violent antions on earth today.
Often literally beheading their own on poliitical not moral motivation.
Sharia law for example, used more often than not as an exebition of power
than of any moral issues.

As does the Christian culture. And, the Christian culture is currently
engaged in several wars.


When dealing with a culture that has a large facist segment, profiling
become a must.

No. It's not cultural. It's radicalization of specific individuals.


We all do it, just many are not as conciously aware of themselves enough
to see it, as many choose to ignore the fact that they actually do just
that.

Yes, we all do it. And the mark of a complete human being is to fight our
more base instincts.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Airplane Security
 

On Dec 26, 11:55*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message

...



Why not just make flyers strip and issue hospital gowns and booties?
They can pick up their clothes at the arrival point.
What's the big deal?
They can modify the hospital gowns so your ass isn't in the wind.
Maybe go to a trousers and shirt kind.
Let everybody carry 20 bucks aboard to buy stuff from the plane gedunk
in case they just have to have a Snickers or a Coca-Cola.
Crew can organize prayer sessions (multi-denomination), group
sing-alongs and charade games to keep folks busy while in the air.
Those who want to can just watch a movie.
What's the problem here? *Why aren't they doing this?
No more long security waits at the airport, and you can reduce costs
by eliminating most of the TSA personnel.
Be more fun flying too. *An adventure every time.
Looks doable to me. *I must add though, that I don't fly.
What say you fliers?

--Vic

I'd rather die see some people naked.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"I'd rather die see some people naked"

D'Plume. I would never call you "average."

Airplane Security
 

On Dec 27, 9:01*am, "mmc" wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message

...



Why not just make flyers strip and issue hospital gowns and booties?
They can pick up their clothes at the arrival point.
What's the big deal?
They can modify the hospital gowns so your ass isn't in the wind.
Maybe go to a trousers and shirt kind.
Let everybody carry 20 bucks aboard to buy stuff from the plane gedunk
in case they just have to have a Snickers or a Coca-Cola.
Crew can organize prayer sessions (multi-denomination), group
sing-alongs and charade games to keep folks busy while in the air.
Those who want to can just watch a movie.
What's the problem here? *Why aren't they doing this?
No more long security waits at the airport, and you can reduce costs
by eliminating most of the TSA personnel.
Be more fun flying too. *An adventure every time.
Looks doable to me. *I must add though, that I don't fly.
What say you fliers?

--Vic

Or, TSA could pay attention to the no fly list and not let the jerk on board
in the first place. They may be too busy checking to make sure your 3 oz.
shampoo bottle is properly secured in it's 1 qt. anti- terrorist ziplock bag
to be bothered with a heads up from the Brits.
TSA is a poor substitute for security. It's been crap since it was set up
and not likely to get better.
I know the libs will squeal at this but mayube a little racial profiling is
in order? Like, check out people with obviously Muslim names a little more
closely than pasty white "Bubba Joe Smith" *from Texarkana (apologies if
Bubba Joe actually resides on this group).

Yet more government think will surely be employed and in response to
failure, the broken system will be made even larger and more
incompetent.

We have been telling you this system treats us like criminals with
little to no benefit in the end. A million people on a watch list and
even having a place on the watch list allowed this fool to bring a
bomb on the plane when I can't bring toothpaste.

Laws and rules don't stop criminals. In addition to the ample
demonstration here and previously, there is also the matter that the
Constitution didn't stop the criminals in DC from violating our rights
with the TSA.

We are herded into a choice soft target in security lines and then our
rights and privacy are raped by officers of a government agency.

I hope people are learning from these foiled plots (foiled by other
passengers) that the government cannot and will not protect us - we
need to protect ourselves.

Airplane Security
 

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Dec 26, 11:55 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message

...



Why not just make flyers strip and issue hospital gowns and booties?
They can pick up their clothes at the arrival point.
What's the big deal?
They can modify the hospital gowns so your ass isn't in the wind.
Maybe go to a trousers and shirt kind.
Let everybody carry 20 bucks aboard to buy stuff from the plane gedunk
in case they just have to have a Snickers or a Coca-Cola.
Crew can organize prayer sessions (multi-denomination), group
sing-alongs and charade games to keep folks busy while in the air.
Those who want to can just watch a movie.
What's the problem here? Why aren't they doing this?
No more long security waits at the airport, and you can reduce costs
by eliminating most of the TSA personnel.
Be more fun flying too. An adventure every time.
Looks doable to me. I must add though, that I don't fly.
What say you fliers?

--Vic

I'd rather die see some people naked.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"I'd rather die see some people naked"

D'Plume. I would never call you "average."


I'd rather you not call me at all.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Airplane Security
 

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Dec 27, 9:01 am, "mmc" wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message

...



Why not just make flyers strip and issue hospital gowns and booties?
They can pick up their clothes at the arrival point.
What's the big deal?
They can modify the hospital gowns so your ass isn't in the wind.
Maybe go to a trousers and shirt kind.
Let everybody carry 20 bucks aboard to buy stuff from the plane gedunk
in case they just have to have a Snickers or a Coca-Cola.
Crew can organize prayer sessions (multi-denomination), group
sing-alongs and charade games to keep folks busy while in the air.
Those who want to can just watch a movie.
What's the problem here? Why aren't they doing this?
No more long security waits at the airport, and you can reduce costs
by eliminating most of the TSA personnel.
Be more fun flying too. An adventure every time.
Looks doable to me. I must add though, that I don't fly.
What say you fliers?

--Vic

Or, TSA could pay attention to the no fly list and not let the jerk on
board
in the first place. They may be too busy checking to make sure your 3 oz.
shampoo bottle is properly secured in it's 1 qt. anti- terrorist ziplock
bag
to be bothered with a heads up from the Brits.
TSA is a poor substitute for security. It's been crap since it was set up
and not likely to get better.
I know the libs will squeal at this but mayube a little racial profiling
is
in order? Like, check out people with obviously Muslim names a little more
closely than pasty white "Bubba Joe Smith" from Texarkana (apologies if
Bubba Joe actually resides on this group).

Yet more government think will surely be employed and in response to
failure, the broken system will be made even larger and more
incompetent.

And your solution is less gov't. How about issue everyone guns before they
board? Oh wait, these guys want to die, so that's not going to work. How
about hire only non-union Blackwater thugs to harass people before they
board, who have dark skin? What exactly are you proposing?

We have been telling you this system treats us like criminals with
little to no benefit in the end. A million people on a watch list and
even having a place on the watch list allowed this fool to bring a
bomb on the plane when I can't bring toothpaste.

About 500K, but your facts are a bit difference, as usual.

Laws and rules don't stop criminals. In addition to the ample
demonstration here and previously, there is also the matter that the

Thus, we should have no laws or rules? That's your logical argument?

Constitution didn't stop the criminals in DC from violating our rights
with the TSA.

But, they might be able to hold those accountable who did violate our
rights, but Dick Cheney is still rich and free.

We are herded into a choice soft target in security lines and then our
rights and privacy are raped by officers of a government agency.

Solution: Don't get in the line.

I hope people are learning from these foiled plots (foiled by other
passengers) that the government cannot and will not protect us - we
need to protect ourselves.

Uh huh. Whatever...

--
Nom=de=Plume

Airplane Security
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:32:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

As you said earlier about Clinton and Bin Laden in Sudan, what was he
supposed to do?

Fair question. Here's my answer... Bush should have concentrated on
capturing and killing bin laden and his cronies. He failed not just to do
that, but he failed to even try very hard.

Why do you think we weren't looking for Osama? Obama has had it as his
stated goal for almost a year, having a pretty good idea where he is
and we still keep coming up empty. If Osama is really still alive and
living in those tribal areas on the Afghan/Pakistan boarder, he will
probably die of old age unless we just get real lucky.

He's in Pakistan. They are a sovereign country that has nukes and a big
muslim population. As it is, we're infuriating the very people we need on
our side.

Personally I am not sure he is even alive and if he is, so what?

Yeah, well, first you cut off the heads, then you go for the body.

Do you really think the primitive things that we keep getting hit with
require some criminal genius to come up with?

Genius no, intelligent yes.

If we caught OBL tomorrow and killed him, there would be 10 more guys
waiting to take his place. Us killing innocent people all over that
region creates more terrorists than we can kill. If Afghanistan is
really the cradle of terrorism, why to we enable them by making the US
the target of choice?
In real life, if we ran all the terrorists out of Afghanistan, they
would pop up in Somalia, Yemen or some other rogue nation where we
have no influence..

So, what's your solution? We tried doing nothing during the early part of
the Bush administration.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Airplane Security
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:36:44 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Actiually, I blame peoples stupidity. But Obama be the one responsible
these days. I didn't agree with Bush's go at it either. Too many
purely
politicial barriers in doing this right.

I do as well. The person responsible for not putting this person on a
higher
level list should be fired and the protocols should be changed. Obama is,
ultimately, responsible. I think he gets that.


I wonder how many people would fit this guy's profile?
I believe we are "watching" about a quarter of a million people. The
question is which ones need to be watched more closely and still
staying politically correct enough not to be criticized for it.
In Obama's defense, this is one of those "damned if you do, damned if
you don't things.

We're not actually watching them ... those on the 500K watch list. As I've
said, intelligent profiling would solve much of this. Looks like we aren't
yet doing a good job with this.

On the bright side, even if this guy's bomb had gone off, the chances
of blowing a hole in the skin of a plane and bringing it down is
fairly slim. Remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243 where about 150 square
feet of the skin peeled off and the only person who died was a flight
attendant who blew out of the hole.
Both this and the shoe bomber were really overblown as a threat.

I believe the authorities said that it was plenty to bring down the plane,
but I agree that the threat is overblown in the sense that we're not
reacting to it properly. Personally, I really don't want to see random
people's feet.

As far as I am concerned, the terrorists have won. They have us living
our lives in fear and made traveling a living hell.
They should put one more security system on the planes, an air lock.
Catch these guys, put them in the air lock at 30,000 feet, then open
the outer door.
"Bye Bye, your virgins are on the ground waiting for you"


I don't think they've won. Most people are not fearful.


--
Nom=de=Plume

Airplane Security
 

On Dec 28, 4:40*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"TopBassDog" wrote in message

...
On Dec 27, 9:01 am, "mmc" wrote:



"Vic Smith" wrote in message

.. .

Why not just make flyers strip and issue hospital gowns and booties?
They can pick up their clothes at the arrival point.
What's the big deal?
They can modify the hospital gowns so your ass isn't in the wind.
Maybe go to a trousers and shirt kind.
Let everybody carry 20 bucks aboard to buy stuff from the plane gedunk
in case they just have to have a Snickers or a Coca-Cola.
Crew can organize prayer sessions (multi-denomination), group
sing-alongs and charade games to keep folks busy while in the air.
Those who want to can just watch a movie.
What's the problem here? Why aren't they doing this?
No more long security waits at the airport, and you can reduce costs
by eliminating most of the TSA personnel.
Be more fun flying too. An adventure every time.
Looks doable to me. I must add though, that I don't fly.
What say you fliers?

--Vic

Or, TSA could pay attention to the no fly list and not let the jerk on
board
in the first place. They may be too busy checking to make sure your 3 oz.
shampoo bottle is properly secured in it's 1 qt. anti- terrorist ziplock
bag
to be bothered with a heads up from the Brits.
TSA is a poor substitute for security. It's been crap since it was set up
and not likely to get better.
I know the libs will squeal at this but mayube a little racial profiling
is
in order? Like, check out people with obviously Muslim names a little more
closely than pasty white "Bubba Joe Smith" from Texarkana (apologies if
Bubba Joe actually resides on this group).
Yet more government think will surely be employed and in response to
failure, the broken system will be made even larger and more
incompetent.

And your solution is less gov't. How about issue everyone guns before they
board? Oh wait, these guys want to die, so that's not going to work.

Nom=de=Plume


D'Plume. I find it peculiar that you and one Archie Bunker think
alike.

And also make as much sense.