Gene wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:40:47 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Rob" wrote in message
...
If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they
have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court
can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.

Rob - Been there, different circumstances.

It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a
Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the
assets
and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the
bankruptcy court
plows through all the records. It can take months.

I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida.
I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place.
The bank called a note on them and they were forced into
Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at
the yard.

Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact
them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel
gate
that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a
van
pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up
behind him and entered as well.

The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were
"closed".
By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck
around
him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my
boat.
He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had
been
frozen by the court.

He ran into the building to call somebody.

Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came
out
and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the
van
and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on.

I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to
fill up the
tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the
town
and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again.

Eisboch
That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up
before you split?

Nothing?

So, you're a cop. What are you going to charge him with? Theft of his
own property? Breaking? Nope. Entering? Nope, the gate was open.
Trespassing? Nope.... he had a right to be there if he was paid up.

These are civil, not criminal issues. The cops *really* don't want to
deal with this.

Google replevin and detinue. You'll have a much cheaper education in
this than mine....

Your sig line works wonderfully when directed at the plum.

Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...

If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they
have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court can
attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.

Rob - Been there, different circumstances.


It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a
Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the assets
and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the bankruptcy
court
plows through all the records. It can take months.

I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida.
I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place.
The bank called a note on them and they were forced into
Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at
the yard.

Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact
them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel gate
that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a van
pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up
behind him and entered as well.

The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were
"closed".
By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck around
him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my
boat.
He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had
been
frozen by the court.

He ran into the building to call somebody.

Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came
out
and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the
van
and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on.

I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to
fill up the
tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the town
and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again.

Eisboch




The delay is due to poor record keeping. If the bankruptcy trustee had
easy access to the list of privately owned boats in for repair, they
would release them a lot sooner than if they had to wade through piles
of papers. In FL, at least, they will talk to people who claim they
have personal property in for repair and release it when they can
confirm ownership.

Rob

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:45:42 -0500, wrote:

If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
the owners.

"Can" be, but don't hold your breath. Get a lawyer... spend $$$$$$$$$
See Item 3 ===

If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job.

Oh, YEAH.... ever the optimist. ASSUMING (all or any of) the parts
can be found.

If they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy
court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.

Item 3===
Which is a wonderful ploy if they are trying to raid YOUR pockets to
pay THEIR encumbrances... WHETHER OR NOT anything has actually been
accomplished!

I agree on #3 - they will nickle and dime every penny they can get for
"expenses". Personal property that is in for repair is always released
prior to the auction and final "tally" if it's removed in the allowed
time frame.

Rob

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:47:29 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:37:45 -0500, Rob wrote:

Personal property that is in for repair is always released
prior to the auction

Only so far as it is "free and clear." A less than honest mechanic can
create a very convincing labor lien based on services not performed.

If he is *really* clever he knows how to perfect a labor lien... if
not, he'll threaten and cajole. Your MilkToast position would make you
ripe for picking......... man up, dude......

again..... this isn't opinion.... I have battle scars....

I'm glad you two had this discussion. It lets me know my initial
inclination was correct - to cut the damn lock and take the boat home.

You know, I'm wondering now if the guy felt threatened by the bolt
cutter I was carrying. That damn thing had three foot handles.
--

John H

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:47:29 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:37:45 -0500, Rob wrote:

Personal property that is in for repair is always released
prior to the auction

Only so far as it is "free and clear." A less than honest mechanic can
create a very convincing labor lien based on services not performed.

If he is *really* clever he knows how to perfect a labor lien... if
not, he'll threaten and cajole. Your MilkToast position would make you
ripe for picking......... man up, dude......

again..... this isn't opinion.... I have battle scars....

I'm glad you two had this discussion. It lets me know my initial
inclination was correct - to cut the damn lock and take the boat home.

You know, I'm wondering now if the guy felt threatened by the bolt
cutter I was carrying. That damn thing had three foot handles.
--

John H


I agree. It was an interesting discussion. Given that the boat was in an
open area, you would have a much better chance of not having a problem with
the police. I'd be cautious though about brandishing something that could be
construed as a weapon. Not sure what state you're in, but some states define
assault as "an attempt to menace by placing another person in fear of
imminent serious bodily injury."

--
Nom=de=Plume

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:37:45 -0500, wrote:

Personal property that is in for repair is always released
prior to the auction

Only so far as it is "free and clear." A less than honest mechanic can
create a very convincing labor lien based on services not performed.

If he is *really* clever he knows how to perfect a labor lien... if
not, he'll threaten and cajole. Your MilkToast position would make you
ripe for picking......... man up, dude......

again..... this isn't opinion.... I have battle scars....

Why would a mechanic in a failing business have a motive to go to that
trouble? Maybe your experience is different than mine.

I have also seen that bankruptcy trustees can be rather flexible when it
comes to obvious ownership of a product. They really don't want to deal
with it.

Rob

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On 11/24/09 6:34 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.



It's still not too late... :)



--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
--

John H

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob