wf3h wrote:
On Sep 27, 8:12 am, Bama Brian wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Sep 26, 2:21 pm, "RD (The Sandman)" rdsandman(spamlock)
@comcast.net wrote:
wf3h wrote :
in fact, i've done ALOT of work with IBM over the last 20 years.
they're one of the most inventive and competitive companies in the
world. and their semiconductor plants are unionized
Not over that 20 years they weren't. Unionization is quite a recent
thing with IBM. The first alliance was in 1999.
thanks for proving my point. the semiconductor industry in the US has
collapsed. but IBM remains competitive due to its unionized workforce
i agree that unionization is a wonderful thing. the NON unionized
companies in silicon valley have disappeared.
Now, in recent history,
in 2001, IBM cut 500 workers in Burlington, VT, 400 in Endicott, NY, 200
in East Fishkill, 180 in Rochester, NY, 150 in Freemont, CA and 75 in
Raliegh, NC. In 2002, over 9,000 jobs were cut in June of 2002 and
another 14,000 in August of the same year. Their was a mass termination
at Lotus Professional Services (which is owned by IBM). Half of the
consultants working there were told to find new jobs withing LPS or be
let go. The IBM retirement package now requires that new retirees will
have to pay for medical benefits.
again, thanks for proving my point. national semi in silicon valley is
closed. non union. phillips in san antonio is closed. non union.
motorola is closed. non union. again and again it's the NON union
plants that have disappeared.
So much for increased benefits by being unionized. ;(
really?
so why don't you get a job with a non-unionized plant?
oh. there aren't any
thanks again for proving why unions are great.
Your anecdotes prove nothing.

There are NO unionized semiconductor plants in Silicon Valley. Or
elsewhere, for that matter, AFAIK.

gee. it's too bad you don't know the industry. ever hear of IBM?

oh. you haven't. but you're an authority on the industry

And you're a damned fool. Never insult a man unless you're sure you
will survive the insult. It's why manners were invented.

I've heard of IBM. I used to work for NEC in the Silicon Valley wafer
fab facility and backend manufacturing. Also worked for National
Semiconductor, Signetics/Phillips, Fujitsu, and a few others. They
helped me retire early. Just for brags, here are a few jobs I worked at
various companies: engineer, engineering manager, field applications
engineer, field applications manager, development tools manager,
business planning manager, director of marketing.

In fact, I could say you're not even qualified to evaluate my resume.

Now let's look at a partial list of who actually had unionized
semiconductor plants in Silicon Valley:
Intel - No.
National Semiconductor - No.
NEC - No. (second plant was in Roseville, CA)
Hitachi - No.
Fujitsu - No. (plant was in OR)
Cypress - No.
AMD - No.
Micron - No. (actually in Boise, ID)

In fact, the unions never got so much as a toehold in Silicon Valley.
Yet companies like AMD and Intel have survived and today are quite
profitable. But they have had to restructure themselves literally every
damned year.

As to IBM, well, that company damn near shot itself to death twenty
years back. Fortunately for it, its management learned early that they
were NOT competitive in manufacturing - which is why they got out of the
mainframe biz early, and why they quit the PC market even while it was
still hot.

As to their two chip plants, only the one in Fishkill has been renovated
to be commercially viable. The other stays alive doing God knows what.
Certainly they won't tell me, and I'm not inclined to do a white paper
for you for free.

Most, if not all, semi plants today survive by manufacturing for others
as well as the parent company. Look up Globalfoundries and Taiwan
Semiconductor for examples.



Semiconductor plants all across the US are closing because the plants
age, require billions of dollars to renovate to be competitive, and so
have been shut down in favor of using plants offshore.

And just FYI, Silicon Valley is one hellaciously expensive place to
live. Nobody in their right mind would try to build a new plant there.


agreed. and since there were no unionized plants there, ever, and
there are few plants there today, unions had zip to do with the death
of the industry in the US

Ask IBM why it could not sustain profitability with its major product
lines, and why it had to close plants world-wide.

But the industry is not dead; even if the plants are mostly all offshore
today. I was surprised to see the AMD/Global plant being built in
upstate NY. I could not see how Global could sustain profitability
given the NY tax structure, so I checked and found that NY state is
giving Global an 'assistance package' of $1.37 billion.

That plant will need a complete renovation within ten years, or less. I
wonder what Global and New York State will do then?

--
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana