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Bridge loan to nowhere..
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. -- "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Wall street brokerage house and bankers... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of all management, and then blow up their buildings. No golden parachutes. Oh...and in all publicly traded corporations, no executive earnings to exceed 10 times the earnings of the average employee. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much smaller and different GM. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Ford doesn't want them. They are trying to downsize themselves. They've sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping Volvo. Eisboch |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Wagoner and Nardelli sure have their glum faces on in that picture. I wonder if they practiced in front of a mirror. ;-) |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much smaller and different GM. Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They are preparing for the inevitable. GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he can't be in charge of reorganizing. The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be ok. He's only been there for two years and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business structure. Eisboch |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Ford doesn't want them. They are trying to downsize themselves. They've sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping Volvo. That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. And their design team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been stuck in neutral for a long time. When was the last time they upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since 1999/2000 I think. If it were up to me, and it isn't, I'd fold the Mercury/Lincoln lines back into Ford or eliminate them. There's nothing there that's exceptional even considering quality - they are Fords - so why keep up the pretence? What I find interesting is that Ford is looking like it's the best one of them all in terms of structure, money and ability to move forward without goverment money. Ford may be the last one standing. Which would please me immensely. I still say that this is a great opportunity for some capital investment firm to step in and build a new car company from scratch designed to compete with Honda/Toyota, etc. I'd be willing to bet that it could be done, start to manufacturing and distribution, in less than five years. -- "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Ford doesn't want them. They are trying to downsize themselves. They've sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping Volvo. That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. And their design team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been stuck in neutral for a long time. When was the last time they upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since 1999/2000 I think. The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) Ford still makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. The Mercury version is still available to the public, but not for long. Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks. Eisboch |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:22:04 -0500, Boater
wrote: Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Wall street brokerage house and bankers... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of all management, and then blow up their buildings. No golden parachutes. Oh...and in all publicly traded corporations, no executive earnings to exceed 10 times the earnings of the average employee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah... By the way, when is the UAW going to fire it's Executives for getting them in this mess to begin with? -- "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Dec 6, 7:17*am, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:22:04 -0500, Boater wrote: Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...?mod=rss_opini.... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Wall street brokerage house and bankers... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of all management, and then blow up their buildings. No golden parachutes. Oh...and in all publicly traded corporations, no executive earnings to exceed 10 times the earnings of the average employee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah... By the way, when is the UAW going to fire it's Executives for getting them in this mess to begin with? Now that IS a very interesting quesiton. As the ship sinks what do the rats do? |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Dec 6, 7:17*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:s3ukj4dksrfj18mrb6l047d3a90lniqpk0@4ax .com... On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:b2rkj4hrnvj4m6p6prft2vp4s3bv7jvpms@4 ax.com... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...?mod=rss_opini... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Ford doesn't want them. *They are trying to downsize themselves. *They've sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping Volvo. That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. *And their design team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been stuck in neutral for a long time. *When was the last time they upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since 1999/2000 I think. The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) *Ford still makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. *The Mercury version is still available to the public, but not for long. Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks. Eisboch Ypu mean no more Crown Vic? Oh my ! how about the Town Cars? |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Dec 6, 7:17*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:s3ukj4dksrfj18mrb6l047d3a90lniqpk0@4ax .com... On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:b2rkj4hrnvj4m6p6prft2vp4s3bv7jvpms@4 ax.com... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...?mod=rss_opini... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Ford doesn't want them. *They are trying to downsize themselves. *They've sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping Volvo. That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. *And their design team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been stuck in neutral for a long time. *When was the last time they upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since 1999/2000 I think. The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) *Ford still makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. *The Mercury version is still available to the public, but not for long. Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks. Eisboch All this started when they quit the Taurus. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Tim" wrote in message ... On Dec 6, 7:17 am, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:s3ukj4dksrfj18mrb6l047d3a90lniqpk0@4ax .com... On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:b2rkj4hrnvj4m6p6prft2vp4s3bv7jvpms@4 ax.com... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...?mod=rss_opini... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Ford doesn't want them. They are trying to downsize themselves. They've sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping Volvo. That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. And their design team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been stuck in neutral for a long time. When was the last time they upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since 1999/2000 I think. The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) Ford still makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. The Mercury version is still available to the public, but not for long. Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks. Eisboch All this started when they quit the Taurus. Actually, the Taurus is back. I believe it's a replacement for the Ford "Five Hundred" which never caught on. The new Taurus is based largely on a colaborative effort by Ford and Volvo and incorporates many Volvo designs. Eisboch |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:22:04 -0500, Boater wrote: Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Wall street brokerage house and bankers... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of all management, and then blow up their buildings. No golden parachutes. Oh...and in all publicly traded corporations, no executive earnings to exceed 10 times the earnings of the average employee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah... By the way, when is the UAW going to fire it's Executives for getting them in this mess to begin with? UAW members elect their leadership. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much smaller and different GM. Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They are preparing for the inevitable. GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he can't be in charge of reorganizing. The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be ok. He's only been there for two years and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business structure. Eisboch Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for Chrysler, Ford or GM. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Boater" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much smaller and different GM. Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They are preparing for the inevitable. GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he can't be in charge of reorganizing. The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be ok. He's only been there for two years and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business structure. Eisboch Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for Chrysler, Ford or GM. You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
Eisboch wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message ... On Dec 6, 7:17 am, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:s3ukj4dksrfj18mrb6l047d3a90lniqpk0@4ax .com... On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:b2rkj4hrnvj4m6p6prft2vp4s3bv7jvpms@4ax .com... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...?mod=rss_opini... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Ford doesn't want them. They are trying to downsize themselves. They've sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping Volvo. That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. And their design team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been stuck in neutral for a long time. When was the last time they upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since 1999/2000 I think. The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) Ford still makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. The Mercury version is still available to the public, but not for long. Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks. Eisboch All this started when they quit the Taurus. Actually, the Taurus is back. I believe it's a replacement for the Ford "Five Hundred" which never caught on. The new Taurus is based largely on a colaborative effort by Ford and Volvo and incorporates many Volvo designs. Eisboch It's a very nice turnpike cruiser. It could use a bit more displacement in the engine, I think. I've rented them a few times on trips. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Boater" wrote in message ... Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for Chrysler, Ford or GM. Most of the members of Congress now realize that in their rush to do something, they really screwed up the TARP bailout. They won't make that mistake again. The fairest and most efficient means to save the auto industry is through a government (taxpayer) supported, pre-packaged Chapter 11 filing. They don't go immediately out of business. Current workers continue working. But, a federal judge will arbitrate new contracts, vendor payments, and the negotiations required to accomplish these. Government (taxpayer) financial support can be given subject to specific uses for the money, as overseen by the bankrupcy court. It works. Eisboch |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much smaller and different GM. Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They are preparing for the inevitable. GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he can't be in charge of reorganizing. The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be ok. He's only been there for two years and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business structure. Eisboch Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for Chrysler, Ford or GM. You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right? |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Boater" wrote in message ... D.Duck wrote: "Boater" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much smaller and different GM. Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They are preparing for the inevitable. GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he can't be in charge of reorganizing. The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be ok. He's only been there for two years and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business structure. Eisboch Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for Chrysler, Ford or GM. You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right? Yes, whatever it takes, if a company is in the same condition as the auto makers. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. On some newscast, I heard that a US Congressman or Senator made the comment to the 'Big 3' that maybe they were making their vehicles 'too good" and therefore repeat/replacement sales are slow. If this is true, what a sad commentary on those in power. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Boater" wrote in message ... Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Wall street brokerage house and bankers... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of all management, and then blow up their buildings. No golden parachutes. Oh...and in all publicly traded corporations, no executive earnings to exceed 10 times the earnings of the average employee. I'd vote for that. I can't believe the compensation some of those CEOs get while the companies they run are into the dirt. |
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On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:43:59 -0500, Boater wrote:
D.Duck wrote: "Boater" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much smaller and different GM. Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They are preparing for the inevitable. GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he can't be in charge of reorganizing. The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be ok. He's only been there for two years and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business structure. Eisboch Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for Chrysler, Ford or GM. You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right? You thinking Obama's going to run the government out of business? -- John H. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Boater" wrote in message ... D.Duck wrote: "Boater" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html? mod=rss_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much smaller and different GM. Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They are preparing for the inevitable. GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he can't be in charge of reorganizing. The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be ok. He's only been there for two years and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business structure. Eisboch Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for Chrysler, Ford or GM. You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right? ...and make retired CEOs pay back some of their ill gotten gains. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) Ford still makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. The Mercury version is still available to the public, but not for long. Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks. Eisboch Oh my...my brother-in-law has been talking about getting a Crown Vic for years....he is winding down his contruction company and wants a big car to tool around in. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:54:26 -0400, "Don White"
wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. On some newscast, I heard that a US Congressman or Senator made the comment to the 'Big 3' that maybe they were making their vehicles 'too good" and therefore repeat/replacement sales are slow. If this is true, what a sad commentary on those in power. Liberal mentality. -- John H. |
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On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote:
You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. |
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On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 10:03:11 -0400, "Don White"
wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message m... The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) Ford still makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. The Mercury version is still available to the public, but not for long. Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks. Eisboch Oh my...my brother-in-law has been talking about getting a Crown Vic for years....he is winding down his contruction company and wants a big car to tool around in. One of my golfing buddies was a Cadillac guy (retired Navy...). About five years ago, Cadillac wouldn't give him the deal he wanted, so he sold his and bought a Lincoln Town Car. He loves it. He's now looking to see if he can get a good deal on a new one. -- John H. |
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wrote in message t... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. Someone outside and disconnected from management and the labor unions needs to review and determine that. What if your fixed labor costs are based on selling 18 million cars a year but you only sold 10 million last year? Eisboch |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message t... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. Someone outside and disconnected from management and the labor unions needs to review and determine that. What if your fixed labor costs are based on selling 18 million cars a year but you only sold 10 million last year? Eisboch Then you have massive layoffs, of course., |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:39:04 -0500, Boater
wrote: Eisboch wrote: wrote in message t... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. Someone outside and disconnected from management and the labor unions needs to review and determine that. What if your fixed labor costs are based on selling 18 million cars a year but you only sold 10 million last year? Eisboch Then you have massive layoffs, of course., UAW has sub-pay, or whatever they're calling it now. When I was UAW at IH the senior guys went first on a layoff. 95% pay for fishing. I think they got unemployment comp then the company made up the rest. Never saw a layoff, but heard what happens when we got close once. That's one of the things Corker was hammering the union guy about. I don't think I ever heard a straight answer. But that's one of the contract provisions that should have to go as a condition of a taxpayer loan. The only way to make it work is the UAW gives up a lot. --Vic |
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Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:39:04 -0500, Boater wrote: Eisboch wrote: wrote in message t... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. Someone outside and disconnected from management and the labor unions needs to review and determine that. What if your fixed labor costs are based on selling 18 million cars a year but you only sold 10 million last year? Eisboch Then you have massive layoffs, of course., UAW has sub-pay, or whatever they're calling it now. When I was UAW at IH the senior guys went first on a layoff. 95% pay for fishing. I think they got unemployment comp then the company made up the rest. Never saw a layoff, but heard what happens when we got close once. That's one of the things Corker was hammering the union guy about. I don't think I ever heard a straight answer. But that's one of the contract provisions that should have to go as a condition of a taxpayer loan. The only way to make it work is the UAW gives up a lot. --Vic The UAW already has proposed massive givebacks. Congress acknowledged that. |
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wrote in message t... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. ................ and assuming that the assembly line workers are being paid twice what they are worth (according to some here), that means only 5% of the overall costs could be saved by attacking union workers and cutting their renumeration by half. I wonder what advertising cost the Big Three? It must be expensive hiring agencys to make up new bull**** every year. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:56:28 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:39:04 -0500, Boater wrote: Eisboch wrote: wrote in message t... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. Someone outside and disconnected from management and the labor unions needs to review and determine that. What if your fixed labor costs are based on selling 18 million cars a year but you only sold 10 million last year? Eisboch Then you have massive layoffs, of course., UAW has sub-pay, or whatever they're calling it now. When I was UAW at IH the senior guys went first on a layoff. 95% pay for fishing. I think they got unemployment comp then the company made up the rest. Never saw a layoff, but heard what happens when we got close once. That's one of the things Corker was hammering the union guy about. I don't think I ever heard a straight answer. But that's one of the contract provisions that should have to go as a condition of a taxpayer loan. The only way to make it work is the UAW gives up a lot. --Vic jobs bank,,, http://tinyurl.com/cbksn -- John H. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:04:57 -0500, Boater wrote:
Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:39:04 -0500, Boater wrote: Eisboch wrote: wrote in message t... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. Someone outside and disconnected from management and the labor unions needs to review and determine that. What if your fixed labor costs are based on selling 18 million cars a year but you only sold 10 million last year? Eisboch Then you have massive layoffs, of course., UAW has sub-pay, or whatever they're calling it now. When I was UAW at IH the senior guys went first on a layoff. 95% pay for fishing. I think they got unemployment comp then the company made up the rest. Never saw a layoff, but heard what happens when we got close once. That's one of the things Corker was hammering the union guy about. I don't think I ever heard a straight answer. But that's one of the contract provisions that should have to go as a condition of a taxpayer loan. The only way to make it work is the UAW gives up a lot. --Vic The UAW already has proposed massive givebacks. Congress acknowledged that. Some liberal folks in Congress acknowledged the UAW's attempts to help? Hee, hee!! You're coming up with some good stuff today. -- John H. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:05:49 -0400, "Don White"
wrote: wrote in message et... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. ............... and assuming that the assembly line workers are being paid twice what they are worth (according to some here), that means only 5% of the overall costs could be saved by attacking union workers and cutting their renumeration by half. I wonder what advertising cost the Big Three? It must be expensive hiring agencys to make up new bull**** every year. Would a thousand dollars have no impact on your car selection? If that thousand dollars had been put into reliability, would they be in the shape they're in now? -- John H. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
Boater wrote:
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:22:04 -0500, Boater wrote: Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge Chrysler with Ford. No bail out. Wall street brokerage house and bankers... Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of all management, and then blow up their buildings. No golden parachutes. Oh...and in all publicly traded corporations, no executive earnings to exceed 10 times the earnings of the average employee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah... By the way, when is the UAW going to fire it's Executives for getting them in this mess to begin with? UAW members elect their leadership. Stupid is as stupid does. Maybe they should have hired professional managers. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Dec 6, 10:16*am, JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:56:28 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:39:04 -0500, Boater wrote: Eisboch wrote: wrote in message inet... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. *If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. Someone outside and disconnected from management and the labor unions needs to review and determine that. What if your fixed labor costs are based on selling 18 million cars a year but you only sold 10 million last year? Eisboch Then you have massive layoffs, of course., UAW has sub-pay, or whatever they're calling it now. When I was UAW at IH the senior guys went first on a layoff. 95% pay for fishing. *I think they got unemployment comp then the company made up the rest. Never saw a layoff, but heard what happens when we got close once. That's one of the things Corker was hammering the union guy about. I don't think I ever heard a straight answer. But that's one of the contract provisions that should have to go as a condition of a taxpayer loan. The only way to make it work is the UAW gives up a lot. --Vic jobs bank,,,http://tinyurl.com/cbksn -- John H.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Holy ****! |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:04:57 -0500, Boater wrote: Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:39:04 -0500, Boater wrote: Eisboch wrote: wrote in message t... On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote: You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts. Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start. Someone outside and disconnected from management and the labor unions needs to review and determine that. What if your fixed labor costs are based on selling 18 million cars a year but you only sold 10 million last year? Eisboch Then you have massive layoffs, of course., UAW has sub-pay, or whatever they're calling it now. When I was UAW at IH the senior guys went first on a layoff. 95% pay for fishing. I think they got unemployment comp then the company made up the rest. Never saw a layoff, but heard what happens when we got close once. That's one of the things Corker was hammering the union guy about. I don't think I ever heard a straight answer. But that's one of the contract provisions that should have to go as a condition of a taxpayer loan. The only way to make it work is the UAW gives up a lot. --Vic The UAW already has proposed massive givebacks. Congress acknowledged that. Some liberal folks in Congress acknowledged the UAW's attempts to help? Hee, hee!! You're coming up with some good stuff today. Actually, it was a couple of Republicans. You're really back to your old style of being a horse's ass, Herring. |
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