On Nov 14, 6:50*pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"tin cup" wrote in message

...



Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. *Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. *They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. *The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. *No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling
did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6
mos.

Now we know why some have a tin cup and others have a gold cup.

Wall Street just prices the company to fair market value. *If GM made a
profit, a real total bottom line net profit in the last 30 years they would
be debt free, had a 1/2 dozen stock splits and the company would be solid
like a rock.

But unions picked the company apart and management let it happen and the
board members didn't do a damn thing.

I do remember back in the mid 1970's. It seemed that the UAW would
strike and picket GM at the drop of a hat. What for? Higher wages, of
course! Then came the cars that were one third the size of the
earlier part of the 70's, with even more shoddy material and
workmanship, and cost about one third more than the larger machines of
the earlier portion of the same decade.

wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:50 pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"tin cup" wrote in message

...



Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling
did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6
mos.
Now we know why some have a tin cup and others have a gold cup.

Wall Street just prices the company to fair market value. If GM made a
profit, a real total bottom line net profit in the last 30 years they would
be debt free, had a 1/2 dozen stock splits and the company would be solid
like a rock.

But unions picked the company apart and management let it happen and the
board members didn't do a damn thing.

I do remember back in the mid 1970's. It seemed that the UAW would
strike and picket GM at the drop of a hat. What for? Higher wages, of
course! Then came the cars that were one third the size of the
earlier part of the 70's, with even more shoddy material and
workmanship, and cost about one third more than the larger machines of
the earlier portion of the same decade.
So...... the unions designed the cars???
The CEO and Board and many levels of mgt made perhaps 20 to 50 times
average Employee...the Employee is greedy????

"tin cup" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:50 pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"tin cup" wrote in message

...



Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling
did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6
mos.
Now we know why some have a tin cup and others have a gold cup.

Wall Street just prices the company to fair market value. If GM made a
profit, a real total bottom line net profit in the last 30 years they
would
be debt free, had a 1/2 dozen stock splits and the company would be
solid
like a rock.

But unions picked the company apart and management let it happen and the
board members didn't do a damn thing.

I do remember back in the mid 1970's. It seemed that the UAW would
strike and picket GM at the drop of a hat. What for? Higher wages, of
course! Then came the cars that were one third the size of the
earlier part of the 70's, with even more shoddy material and
workmanship, and cost about one third more than the larger machines of
the earlier portion of the same decade.
So...... the unions designed the cars???
The CEO and Board and many levels of mgt made perhaps 20 to 50 times
average Employee...the Employee is greedy????

Yup, they are greedy, so are the unions. And excess greed is why they are
in the dire straits they are in.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...


Yup, they are greedy, so are the unions. And excess greed is why they are
in the dire straits they are in.


Hey. I like Dire Straits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...


Yup, they are greedy, so are the unions. And excess greed is why they
are in the dire straits they are in.


Hey. I like Dire Straits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

Eisboch


I was going to comment in the post on Dire Straits. Still one of my
favorites.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...


Yup, they are greedy, so are the unions. And excess greed is why they
are in the dire straits they are in.


Hey. I like Dire Straits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

Eisboch


Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB3b1W6rEDw

wrote in message
...
On Nov 14, 6:50 pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"tin cup" wrote in message

...



Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling
did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6
mos.

Now we know why some have a tin cup and others have a gold cup.

Wall Street just prices the company to fair market value. If GM made a
profit, a real total bottom line net profit in the last 30 years they
would
be debt free, had a 1/2 dozen stock splits and the company would be solid
like a rock.

But unions picked the company apart and management let it happen and the
board members didn't do a damn thing.

I do remember back in the mid 1970's. It seemed that the UAW would
strike and picket GM at the drop of a hat. What for? Higher wages, of
course! Then came the cars that were one third the size of the
earlier part of the 70's, with even more shoddy material and
workmanship, and cost about one third more than the larger machines of
the earlier portion of the same decade.
----

But now they want their hands in non-union tax payers pockets from coast to
coast, north and south.

Think, why should a worker say in Oregon pay for an executive in Detroit?
Why should a person cutting lumber in BC bail out an Ontario plant for a
product they can't afford, don't like and don't want?

And I am a capitalist. Government should be out of business period.

GMs problems are simple, they are one or more of the following:

- cost to much
- unreliable crap compared to others
- costs are out of control
- crappy management and destructive unions
- can't afford it
- credit no good

Solve the first 4 and their problems go away. The only way right now to do
that is chapter 11.

Recovery plan that will work.

1) Chapter 11 - Judge calls the shots.

2) If the plant or facility is losing money, bye-bye, close it with a 4-sale
sign. Axe everyone, no transfers especially poisoned dysfunctional
management.

3) If the plant is marginal, fire senior management and replace them from
outside with real bottom like customer orientated business people. Give the
union 72 hours to accept a new contract which simply states: "You can quit
at any time, you will have a job if you stay in so long as this plant makes
money in the month, every month. We reserve the right to close without
notice. We now pay 1/2 (or less) of prior rates. Severance is not an
option.".

4) Fire ALL senior executives including the CEO and board. A board member
may stay provided they own more than 5% of the company in common stock or
preferred shares. Otherwise they pack, no severance.

5) Liquidate excess inventory, fire sale. Raise cash to pay creditors in
order.

6) Pension and other benefits, now a union issue.

7) New HR policies, no show, slackers, poor quality gets you fired. If
union resists, close the facility.

8) Reorganize debt. Common shares, preferred shares and bond holders are
likely out.

9) Anyone getting in the way, or hindering 1-8 above is in contempt of
court. Set the hearing date and fire them.

Problem solved. Lean and mean. Run it by the books for a year or two, then
put it back on the market. Probably go for $100 share.

I think I mean take control of the company.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...


GMs problems are simple, they are one or more of the following:

- cost to much
- unreliable crap compared to others
- costs are out of control
- crappy management and destructive unions
- can't afford it
- credit no good

Solve the first 4 and their problems go away. The only way right now to
do that is chapter 11.

Recovery plan that will work.

1) Chapter 11 - Judge calls the shots.

2) If the plant or facility is losing money, bye-bye, close it with a
4-sale sign. Axe everyone, no transfers especially poisoned dysfunctional
management.

3) If the plant is marginal, fire senior management and replace them from
outside with real bottom like customer orientated business people. Give
the union 72 hours to accept a new contract which simply states: "You can
quit at any time, you will have a job if you stay in so long as this plant
makes money in the month, every month. We reserve the right to close
without notice. We now pay 1/2 (or less) of prior rates. Severance is
not an option.".

4) Fire ALL senior executives including the CEO and board. A board member
may stay provided they own more than 5% of the company in common stock or
preferred shares. Otherwise they pack, no severance.

5) Liquidate excess inventory, fire sale. Raise cash to pay creditors in
order.

6) Pension and other benefits, now a union issue.

7) New HR policies, no show, slackers, poor quality gets you fired. If
union resists, close the facility.

8) Reorganize debt. Common shares, preferred shares and bond holders are
likely out.

9) Anyone getting in the way, or hindering 1-8 above is in contempt of
court. Set the hearing date and fire them.

Problem solved. Lean and mean. Run it by the books for a year or two,
then put it back on the market. Probably go for $100 share.

I think I mean take control of the company.


I like your style. I don't think I want to work for you though ... :-)

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...


GMs problems are simple, they are one or more of the following:

- cost to much
- unreliable crap compared to others
- costs are out of control
- crappy management and destructive unions
- can't afford it
- credit no good

Solve the first 4 and their problems go away. The only way right now to
do that is chapter 11.

Recovery plan that will work.

1) Chapter 11 - Judge calls the shots.

2) If the plant or facility is losing money, bye-bye, close it with a
4-sale sign. Axe everyone, no transfers especially poisoned
dysfunctional management.

3) If the plant is marginal, fire senior management and replace them from
outside with real bottom like customer orientated business people. Give
the union 72 hours to accept a new contract which simply states: "You can
quit at any time, you will have a job if you stay in so long as this
plant makes money in the month, every month. We reserve the right to
close without notice. We now pay 1/2 (or less) of prior rates.
Severance is not an option.".

4) Fire ALL senior executives including the CEO and board. A board
member may stay provided they own more than 5% of the company in common
stock or preferred shares. Otherwise they pack, no severance.

5) Liquidate excess inventory, fire sale. Raise cash to pay creditors in
order.

6) Pension and other benefits, now a union issue.

7) New HR policies, no show, slackers, poor quality gets you fired. If
union resists, close the facility.

8) Reorganize debt. Common shares, preferred shares and bond holders are
likely out.

9) Anyone getting in the way, or hindering 1-8 above is in contempt of
court. Set the hearing date and fire them.

Problem solved. Lean and mean. Run it by the books for a year or two,
then put it back on the market. Probably go for $100 share.

I think I mean take control of the company.


I like your style. I don't think I want to work for you though ... :-)

Eisboch

But your job would be secure. In tough times and no debt I could afford to
keep the good people on board.