The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos.

wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.



It's kind of humorous to see posters who think the UAW workers have
anything to do with the design of Detroit cars or their engineering or
manufacturing. The assembly line workers are closely supervised and
work with what they are given and do what they are told. The managements
of GM, Ford, and Chrysler are entirely responsible for their products.

On Nov 14, 3:12*pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. *Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. *They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. *The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. *No bailouts for
Bull****.

The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos.

Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.

wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos.

Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.


What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at
the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a
contract?

That's the way it is supposed to be.

The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and
everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall
Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the
hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the
crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the
bail-out money.

wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.

Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them
scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy,
that's a relief.

BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight.
Hope yall is watchin.

wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.


GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM
cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to
pay for union labor and union benefits.

People do not have a problem paying a bit more for quality. My parents
bought GM vehicles. When I saw what piles of crap they were I decided to
never buy one. My dad did buy a Datsun 1200 Sedan back in '72, damn
thing ran for ever. Had to keep riveting the body back together but the
mechanicals of that car were great. It had more than 250,000 miles on it
when the guy finally towed it away, it was still running too.

Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.
Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them
scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy,
that's a relief.

BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight.
Hope yall is watchin.


Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a
letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at
being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they
don't have to work at it.

You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at
Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd
probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once
you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there.

BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.

GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM
cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to
pay for union labor and union benefits.


Yep...you are indeed simple-minded.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

GM and particularly Ford are making decent headway in some of their newer
model introductions.
Some of GM's products are rated as highly as anything from Toyota or higher
in terms of quality and frequency of problems. Same with some of the new
Ford products who also has been recognized as the leader of the American
manufacturers in terms of actively revising their product line and getting
with the program.

This does not include many of the older models and trucks that are slowly
being phased out.

Eisboch