Strangeness... I replaced my old bronze check valve off my main bilge pump
with a new bronze one. Basically identical to the old. It's only been a
short time and it seems to be jamming in the closed position, so that when
the automatic kicks in, the pump runs without ejecting water. This only
happens after there's a fair amount of water in the bilge, as when I've run
the engine for more than an hour (packing gland needs to be tightened, but
that's another project).

The check valve is about a foot from the Rule. Same place as before within
an inch or so. Certainly, I can return it for an exchange, but this will be
the second exchange, and besides WM being sick of exchanging it, I'm sick of
exchanging it also. Could have gotten two funky ones in a row, but perhaps
there's another explanation? The other pump/check valve doesn't seem to have
the same problem, and the only difference is that the check valve is a bit
farther away, maybe 2 feet from the pump.

Right now, the fix is pop the hose and stick a long-neck screwdriver in the
intake side of the valve, jam it a couple of times, then it seems to work
fine for some period of time.

Suggestions? Should I try a plastic one?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Jun 29, 9:19*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Strangeness... Suggestions? Should I try a plastic one?

--
"j" ganz

A friend of mine ahd the same problem.

He had a Rule 750 with 3/4" discharge hose.
about 6" from discharge had inline check valve by whale??
Every thing worked great BEFORE installing the new check valve then
the Rule would run great but no water would discharge.

He, on my advice, **** canned teh check valve and used a Groco bronze
vented loop. Problme solved.
Pupm works fine.

Bob

Yes, eliminate the check valve. They can easily disable one of the most
important safety devices on your boat as you have discovered. They serve no
useful purpose on a pump that pushes the water out unless your hose to sump
volume ratio is such that the water flooding back down the hose when the
pump stops will reactivate the float switch and send the system into an
endless cycle that runs down the battery. Even in that case, no check valve
sucking up the stuff that floats around in bilges can be relied upon to stay
tight. It will still cycle, just slower. There are also significant head
losses through the check valve the reduce the amount of water the pump can
move.

If you are having cycling problems, the vented loop Bob suggests can reduce
the hose volume if you get the loop close enough to the pump.

I do have a check valve on my diaphram hand pump just because it makes it
easier to get it primed and started. It's the rubber flap valve from extra
parts for the same Guzzler pump bolted together and inserted in the end of
the hose. If it jambs, I can just pull up the hose and stick my finger in
to clear the clog or yank the check valve out.

Check valves have no place in a bilge line other than right at end of the
inlet hose.

As to why the old valve worked and the new one doesn't, welcome to the new
world order of Chinese manufacturing domination. Don't bother returning it
for another just like it.

--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Yes, eliminate the check valve. They can easily disable one of the most
important safety devices on your boat as you have discovered. They serve
no useful purpose on a pump that pushes the water out unless your hose to
sump volume ratio is such that the water flooding back down the hose when
the pump stops will reactivate the float switch and send the system into
an endless cycle that runs down the battery. Even in that case, no check
valve sucking up the stuff that floats around in bilges can be relied upon
to stay tight. It will still cycle, just slower. There are also
significant head losses through the check valve the reduce the amount of
water the pump can move.

If you are having cycling problems, the vented loop Bob suggests can
reduce the hose volume if you get the loop close enough to the pump.

I do have a check valve on my diaphram hand pump just because it makes it
easier to get it primed and started. It's the rubber flap valve from
extra parts for the same Guzzler pump bolted together and inserted in the
end of the hose. If it jambs, I can just pull up the hose and stick my
finger in to clear the clog or yank the check valve out.

Check valves have no place in a bilge line other than right at end of the
inlet hose.

As to why the old valve worked and the new one doesn't, welcome to the new
world order of Chinese manufacturing domination. Don't bother returning
it for another just like it.


I was thinking about a loop, but how the heck to I install one? It's a
fairly shallow bilge, and I would have to vent it somewhere... another hole
in the boat?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 2008-06-30 12:09:03 -0400, "Capt. JG" said:

I was thinking about a loop, but how the heck to I install one? It's a
fairly shallow bilge, and I would have to vent it somewhere... another hole
in the boat?

That's a question I'd love answered, as well. The only idea I could
come up with was a vented loop under the head sink, snaked to the stern
along the side, but that's a 10' extension to the run.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Jun 30, 8:09*am, "Capt. JG" wrote:

I was thinking about a loop, but how the heck to I install one?

Uhh, pretty simple in most cases. Go to Groco online and look at the
installatoin requirments.


It's a
fairly shallow bilge, and I would have to vent it somewhere... another hole
in the boat?

ganz

Now im really confused. Your "vented loop" doesnt need a vent..... it
sucks.... it just needs a place to discharge your bilge, of which you
allready have one hopfully ABOVE the water line.

I must be reading your response wrong....... or (insert criticism
here) !


thumb thouroug a WM catalogue they sometimes have an installation
digram but any of the manfg will also have it online or try Nigal
Calder how to fix boat stuff.

Long day im tired did too many amazing accomplishments today.
Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Jun 30, 8:09 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:

I was thinking about a loop, but how the heck to I install one?

Uhh, pretty simple in most cases. Go to Groco online and look at the
installatoin requirments.

I'll check it out....

It's a
fairly shallow bilge, and I would have to vent it somewhere... another
hole
in the boat?

Now im really confused. Your "vented loop" doesnt need a vent..... it
sucks.... it just needs a place to discharge your bilge, of which you
allready have one hopfully ABOVE the water line.

I must be reading your response wrong....... or (insert criticism
here) !

I was just responding to the idea about the vented loop... I think you
mentioned it.

thumb thouroug a WM catalogue they sometimes have an installation
digram but any of the manfg will also have it online or try Nigal
Calder how to fix boat stuff.

Long day im tired did too many amazing accomplishments today.
Bob






--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2008070101010550073-jerelull@maccom...
On 2008-06-30 12:09:03 -0400, "Capt. JG" said:

I was thinking about a loop, but how the heck to I install one? It's a
fairly shallow bilge, and I would have to vent it somewhere... another
hole
in the boat?

That's a question I'd love answered, as well. The only idea I could come
up with was a vented loop under the head sink, snaked to the stern along
the side, but that's a 10' extension to the run.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/



Yeah, that would be way too far for me. One possibility would be in the
engine space. It's only a couple of feet from the primary bilge area.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Just got back from a two night cruise.

You don't need to vent the loop outside the boat. It's just a return bend
with a one way valve that lets air in if a siphon tries to start. It's
identical to the loop you have, or should have, on the top of the water
intake for the head. In fact, you can use one of those. The closer you can
get the loop to the pump, the less back flow water you'll have because the
vent will let the air in and water on one side of the loop will go overboard
and the other side will run back into the bilge.

Roger

In article ,
Roger Long wrote:
Just got back from a two night cruise.

You don't need to vent the loop outside the boat. It's just a return bend
with a one way valve that lets air in if a siphon tries to start. It's
identical to the loop you have, or should have, on the top of the water
intake for the head. In fact, you can use one of those. The closer you can
get the loop to the pump, the less back flow water you'll have because the
vent will let the air in and water on one side of the loop will go overboard
and the other side will run back into the bilge.

I took a look at the WM site and found an example of a vented loop. Looks like it might fit, but I'm not sure where yet. It can either be within a foot or so, or it would have to be at least 3 feet away in the engine space. I'll have to check it out.