Hello,
I've asked 'the experts' but they must have thought I was asking for 'trade
secrets' and subsequently offered no help.

Here's my problem; I'm installing an Arneson ASD8 Surface Drive in my 30
foot Cobra Terminator race boat and understand I should use a Double Piloted
Check Valve (DPCV) between the steering cylinder and the helm to eliminate
feedback into the wheel as discussed online at:
http://www.h-ri.com/Product/Steering..._sys_DPCV.html

I'll be using a single station, power hydraulic steering system with a
char-lynn 211-1009-002 helm (recommended for use with the ASD8). I've been
unable to contact anyone at www.h-ri.com for further details and my internet
searches (using various related phrases in Google) have been fruitless.

Does anyone here have experience with a Double Piloted Check Valve installed
in their hydraulic steering system? What manufacturer and part number DPCV
should I be looking at?

You can follow the progress (or lack of progress) on my turbine powered boat
project online at: www.TurbineFun.com

Thanks (in advance) for your assistance!

Larry

Larry,
All helm pump manufacturers equip their helm pumps with non-return valves if
there is additional helm stations and/or an autopilot pump. So, this is the
norm, not the unusual. You would not want the steering wheel to rotate
rather than the rudder move when in autopilot mode. Nor would you want the
wheel on the flybridge to turn the wheel in the wheelhouse rather than the
rudder. That is what they are used for, but they have a secondary effect as
well and that is to prevent the rudder acting like a pump and kicking the
wheel. On sailboats, rudder feedback is a great tool in trimming the sail
plan for rig balance, so you would then want a manual valve where you can
turn on the feature with a lever if in rough water or when using an
autopilot. This is not rocket science. It is common sense. The double pilot
bit is that the non-return capability must be on both of the oil ports of
the pump because either side could be IN and OUT, depending on wheel
rotation.
Steve

"Larry" wrote in message
news:s24ng.2278$Wh.192@trnddc04...
Hello,
I've asked 'the experts' but they must have thought I was asking for
'trade
secrets' and subsequently offered no help.

Here's my problem; I'm installing an Arneson ASD8 Surface Drive in my 30
foot Cobra Terminator race boat and understand I should use a Double
Piloted
Check Valve (DPCV) between the steering cylinder and the helm to eliminate
feedback into the wheel as discussed online at:
http://www.h-ri.com/Product/Steering..._sys_DPCV.html

I'll be using a single station, power hydraulic steering system with a
char-lynn 211-1009-002 helm (recommended for use with the ASD8). I've
been
unable to contact anyone at www.h-ri.com for further details and my
internet
searches (using various related phrases in Google) have been fruitless.

Does anyone here have experience with a Double Piloted Check Valve
installed
in their hydraulic steering system? What manufacturer and part number DPCV
should I be looking at?

You can follow the progress (or lack of progress) on my turbine powered
boat
project online at: www.TurbineFun.com

Thanks (in advance) for your assistance!

Larry

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Larry,
All helm pump manufacturers equip their helm pumps with non-return valves
if
there is additional helm stations and/or an autopilot pump. So, this is
the
norm, not the unusual. You would not want the steering wheel to rotate
rather than the rudder move when in autopilot mode. Nor would you want the
wheel on the flybridge to turn the wheel in the wheelhouse rather than the
rudder. That is what they are used for, but they have a secondary effect
as
well and that is to prevent the rudder acting like a pump and kicking the
wheel. On sailboats, rudder feedback is a great tool in trimming the sail
plan for rig balance, so you would then want a manual valve where you can
turn on the feature with a lever if in rough water or when using an
autopilot. This is not rocket science. It is common sense. The double
pilot
bit is that the non-return capability must be on both of the oil ports of
the pump because either side could be IN and OUT, depending on wheel
rotation.
Steve

Thanks for the reply Steve.

So (if I understand correctly) I should make a few 'test runs' with a
'standard' hydraulic steering system (without a DPCV) and see how it reacts.
I'll just keep a tight grip on the wheel and see how much force is sent back
into the helm from rough water. That sounds like a plan.

I just don't want the wheel ripped out of my hand at 120 plus mph- not good.

Thanks, Larry

We just had to have a pilot operated check valve replaced on our back hoe.
On the back hoe we have singles and doubles. The single holds the bucket in
position until the pump pressure tells the valve to open and move the
bucket. The double is in the steering circuit to prevent the steering wheel
from jumping when the front wheels hit an obstruction.

What it does is act like a regular check valve until it sees pressure on the
pilot port and then turns it into a two way valve. On a double the pressure
lines from opposite sides are piped to the pilot ports so that when the
starboard valve sees pressure from the port steering side it opens and lets
the hydraulic fluid flow back to the pump allowing normal steering. If the
rudder is jammed over to port pressure on the starboard line to the rudder
will be high and pressure from the port pump to its check valve will be low
so the starboard check valve closes and prevents back flow to the pump.


The 211-1009 is just an open center control and does not come with check
valves. Open center controls direct the output of a constant pressure pump
and high pressure back flow can not only jerk the wheel but also damage the
pump leaving you with no steering at all. Normally you would probably use a
relief manifold that has the check valves built in. The relief manifold
bleeds the excess pressure back to the pump reservoir but that would let the
rudder move a little on its own and I am not sure you want that to happen at
120 MPH.

Eaton and Parker both make pilot operated check valves. You might check
their catalogs for a double. Worse case you could get two singles and tap
off the ports of the 1009 to cross feed the pilots on each valve.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Larry" wrote in message
news:s24ng.2278$Wh.192@trnddc04...
Hello,
I've asked 'the experts' but they must have thought I was asking for
'trade
secrets' and subsequently offered no help.

Here's my problem; I'm installing an Arneson ASD8 Surface Drive in my 30
foot Cobra Terminator race boat and understand I should use a Double
Piloted
Check Valve (DPCV) between the steering cylinder and the helm to eliminate
feedback into the wheel as discussed online at:
http://www.h-ri.com/Product/Steering..._sys_DPCV.html

I'll be using a single station, power hydraulic steering system with a
char-lynn 211-1009-002 helm (recommended for use with the ASD8). I've
been
unable to contact anyone at www.h-ri.com for further details and my
internet
searches (using various related phrases in Google) have been fruitless.

Does anyone here have experience with a Double Piloted Check Valve
installed
in their hydraulic steering system? What manufacturer and part number DPCV
should I be looking at?

You can follow the progress (or lack of progress) on my turbine powered
boat
project online at: www.TurbineFun.com

Thanks (in advance) for your assistance!

Larry

BTW, Google for "pilot operated check valve" rather than "piloted check
valve" and you will get more hits. The word "Piloted" is not commonly used
in hydraulic valve nomenclature.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:qming.114995$Ce1.4388@dukeread01...
We just had to have a pilot operated check valve replaced on our back hoe.
On the back hoe we have singles and doubles. The single holds the bucket
in position until the pump pressure tells the valve to open and move the
bucket. The double is in the steering circuit to prevent the steering
wheel from jumping when the front wheels hit an obstruction.

What it does is act like a regular check valve until it sees pressure on
the pilot port and then turns it into a two way valve. On a double the
pressure lines from opposite sides are piped to the pilot ports so that
when the starboard valve sees pressure from the port steering side it
opens and lets the hydraulic fluid flow back to the pump allowing normal
steering. If the rudder is jammed over to port pressure on the starboard
line to the rudder will be high and pressure from the port pump to its
check valve will be low so the starboard check valve closes and prevents
back flow to the pump.


The 211-1009 is just an open center control and does not come with check
valves. Open center controls direct the output of a constant pressure
pump and high pressure back flow can not only jerk the wheel but also
damage the pump leaving you with no steering at all. Normally you would
probably use a relief manifold that has the check valves built in. The
relief manifold bleeds the excess pressure back to the pump reservoir but
that would let the rudder move a little on its own and I am not sure you
want that to happen at 120 MPH.

Eaton and Parker both make pilot operated check valves. You might check
their catalogs for a double. Worse case you could get two singles and tap
off the ports of the 1009 to cross feed the pilots on each valve.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Larry" wrote in message
news:s24ng.2278$Wh.192@trnddc04...
Hello,
I've asked 'the experts' but they must have thought I was asking for
'trade
secrets' and subsequently offered no help.

Here's my problem; I'm installing an Arneson ASD8 Surface Drive in my 30
foot Cobra Terminator race boat and understand I should use a Double
Piloted
Check Valve (DPCV) between the steering cylinder and the helm to
eliminate
feedback into the wheel as discussed online at:
http://www.h-ri.com/Product/Steering..._sys_DPCV.html

I'll be using a single station, power hydraulic steering system with a
char-lynn 211-1009-002 helm (recommended for use with the ASD8). I've
been
unable to contact anyone at www.h-ri.com for further details and my
internet
searches (using various related phrases in Google) have been fruitless.

Does anyone here have experience with a Double Piloted Check Valve
installed
in their hydraulic steering system? What manufacturer and part number
DPCV
should I be looking at?

You can follow the progress (or lack of progress) on my turbine powered
boat
project online at: www.TurbineFun.com

Thanks (in advance) for your assistance!

Larry

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:Eving.114996$Ce1.72507@dukeread01...
BTW, Google for "pilot operated check valve" rather than "piloted check
valve" and you will get more hits. The word "Piloted" is not commonly
used
in hydraulic valve nomenclature.

Glenn Ashmore

Thanks Glenn!