The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear
screen
inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer.

This is a specious argument, at best. That and vector charts have
essentially unlimited resolution (granted, raster charts are being used in
the original post). The quality of detail varies based on the source data
and the chart provider. Some offer considerable detail. Digital charting
systems also afford a greater range of searching, both for route planning
and guide information. As in, find me all restaurants within 10 navigable
miles, Garmin's doing that sort of thing now on their latest chartplotters.

it is not everywhere and it simply is not ready for prime time.

Perhaps not for you. But people who actually use current digital commercial
charting solutions appreciate otherwise.

I think the half-assed hack using google data is just that, but do not
confuse it with what is actually being done with digital navigation tools.

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:52:15 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of
me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds
like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the court ruling in an
accident liability case when you tell the court you were using uncertified
charts from the internet after causing massive property damage and or loss
of life.

Yes but the courts will be more impressed with the zip lock bag
marinization technique.

Larry,

This is a bit off topic - but I am wondering if it is possible to connect a
Nokia N800 to my laptop at the Nav Station, running Coastal Explorer
software - and display the same screen (Coastal Explorer) on the Nokia?

Also, what kind of Bluetooth transmitter would I need fro the laptop to
communicate with the Nokia?

Thanks in advance

Claus




"Larry" wrote in message
...
Have you guys been to:
http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/
Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays?

Take a look....(c;

My little Nokia N800 Linux internet tablet has an open source freeware
app the Linux hacker geniuses wrote called Maemo Mapper that uses these
tiles and a little Bluetooth GPS receiver (12 channel, WAAS-corrected,
very sensitive, size of a matchbox) to put a fix, track your progress, do
waypoints and plan routes on a wide variety of map tile repositories it
downloads and stores from open internet repositories such as Google,
Virtual Earth, open source map repositories, NOAA weather radar LIVE,
Terraserver, Runway Finder (latest aviation charts!)....etc., etc., more
every week. On the road, it connects to Points of Interest databases so
detailed it even has the self-serve laundromat up the street, complete
with their phone numbers you can use while ashore in some strange port,
lost as usual trying to find that maritime museum in Tahiti. You'll
carry the tablet while ashore walking around with the little GPS in your
watch pocket of your jeans. That way you won't get lost in Key West,
again, next time and can find that special bar right on the map!

I'm in contact with the guys who wrote Maemo Mapper (open source
freeware) for the Maemo Linux tablets, and am trying to get them to do
what's necessary to get Marine Charts, with your boat's position tracking
on top of them.....no, no...not those OLD, OBSOLETE charts from 1989 on
the damned expensive chart plugs....straight off the internet with the
latest charts available for FREE! So, there you are cruising the ICW or
your favorite Chesapeake Bay, tracking your course on top of the latest
marine chart...or...Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo...or...any of
many land mapping sources...with the LATEST weather radar picture
directly from the NOAA doppler radar available by clicking the WX icon
over any picture/chart/map...all in relation to your course being plotted
by a $230 Linux internet tablet connected through your Bluetooth cellular
phone's internet service to shore.....if it can connect, of course. If
not, it'll use the STORED maps/charts/tile photos from your two 16GB SDHC
memory cards ($59 ea at buy.com when I got mine.)

Interested??.....(c;

http://www.nseries.com/n800
the tablet....

http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/
all the freeware for it.

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/
the open source freeware mapper program
(installs on the tablet by coming to this page and clicking
that green arrow's .install program. Linux is easier than WinXP.)

http://www.youtube.com/results?
search_query=maemo+mapper&search_type=&aq=f
some older videos on using Maemo Mapper not related to a marine
environment....

Search Google for maemo mapper to get lots more info on this
fantastic little Linux program.....

------------------------------------------------------------------

So, there I hope you'll be, crusing down the ICW plotted within a couple
of ft by the little GPS up under the bimini in a ziplock bag. Wherever
you are on the boat, not just tethered to wires at the helm, you can look
at your tablet and see where you are on the chart. Wondering what the
terrain looks like up ahead, you click up the menu button to the left of
the screen, click MAPS and pick VE Hybrid from the list of repositories.
Maemo mapper switches itself from the NOAA chart to Virtual Earth's
latest satellite photo with all the local streets and roads around you
nicely plotted and labeled...EXACTLY where the chart just was with your
little blue icon in the center. You look up around the bend from a real
picture and see some docks to look out for sticking out from shore and
the fork in the ICW not far beyond you need to take the left channel on
according to the chart you just left. You press the WX clicker and NOAA
weather radar's NEXRAD displays on the satphoto (or chart as selected)
showing you a nasty thunderstorm about 12 miles ahead you've heard
banging away in the distance but can't see where it is for the trees and
terrain, here. Now you know the storm's exact location on the chart and
can keep an eye on it to see if it is approaching your course of going
the other way.....

Lying comfortably in your aft cabin with the tablet on your pillow, you
decide you can snooze a little longer before being needed on deck. You
put the tablet in LOCK mode, shutting down the display, but the programs
keep tracking your movements and that weather cell for instant retrieval
without having to boot up. In standby with the display off, you don't
need to charge it for days....It runs for 6 hours at full brightness, not
45 minutes like the damned laptop battery hog at the chart table. It
charges in an hour, ready for a few more watches....

This is what I'm trying to get the Mapper hackers to do for you...(c;

Not $1500, Not $2400, Not $699.......$230 for the tablet, $0 for the
software and data off your cellphone, $100 for the tiny GPS box that
recharges in an hour and runs for 22 on its little cellphone battery
that's also user changeable as easy as your cellphone's.

Still interested??

You'll switch Maemo Mapper to the runwayfinders.com aviation charts next
week when you fly down to Miami....exactly like this, too....(c;

After you've docked, you'll connect the tablet to the marina's wifi (it's
5 times as sensitive as the most expensive laptop we can find) so you can
click up Streamtuner and pick one of its 15,000 radio stations across the
planet streaming on the internet....or watch any number of internet
videos from youtube on MyTube those hackers wrote for it free....or use
mplayer to play one of the DivX movies you loaded on its external card
off alt.binaries.movies.divx newsgroup. Who needs XM?? How silly....

iPhone my ass.........

"claus" wrote in
:

This is a bit off topic - but I am wondering if it is possible to
connect a Nokia N800 to my laptop at the Nav Station, running Coastal
Explorer software - and display the same screen (Coastal Explorer) on
the Nokia?

Also, what kind of Bluetooth transmitter would I need fro the laptop
to communicate with the Nokia?



I was going to put this paragraph last as I'm typing it last, but that
wouldn't be fair after all this instruction to mention a glaring
deficiency in Windows on that laptop before we start.......
Windows is ONLY capable of running ONE USER AT A TIME. This means that
the laptop's keyboard/display user MUST be LOGGED OFF prior to the tablet
logging on as the remote user. It's not my fault, bitch at Bill Gates.
The helmsman cannot watch the laptop display of the chart plotter while
you're watching it from the tablet via remote desktop. Sorry....
However, if this isn't a problem remote desktop is done like this....:

(this was my first paragraph in answer to your query)...
No problem whatsoever using very inexpensive equipment. Forget using
bluetooth as the laptop probably doesn't have it. It's MUCH easier to
simply plug in a wifi router to 12VDC from the house batteries creating
your own Local Area Network (LAN) aboard the boat. The laptop is setup
for it. The N800 is, too. The LAN will have a range far outside the
boat bluetooth cannot match.

Now, how to do it is also quite easy. The Windows laptop needs to be
configured to allow for a password-secured user. Just add a new user and
password protect that user. Remote Desktop requires you have a password
protected user for obvious reasons. Bring up Control Panel and click
USER ACCOUNTS. Pick to install a new user account and fill in the blanks
for the new user. PASSWORD protect this user for the N800 to logon to.

Then, you click up Control Panel and select SYSTEM. When that panel
opens, select REMOTE. When the REMOTE tab opens, put a check in the box
to Allow users to connect to this computer remotely (the bottom square,
not Remote Assistance) Write down the name of your computer that is
displayed right under the checkbox. You'll need it later.

OK your way out of the SYSTEM panel to activate Remote Desktop and you're
ready for remote users to use this computer through that new passworded
user.

Now, we need to use the laptop's web browser to logon to the new router's
control webpage. I don't like to leave wifi open for this task, so plug
an Ethernet cable from the laptop to one of the router's LAN ports and
let Plug 'n Pray log the laptop onto the router. If the router is going
to be where the laptop is located, I would LEAVE the laptop hard wired to
the LAN port of the router, permanently, to make the wifi to the tablet
even faster by reducing the radio system loading.

Ok, the router is running, the laptop is running and connected to the
router over Ethernet. I like Netgear routers so I'll set my example for
the netgear line of routers.
Enter:
http://192.168.1.1/
into the browser's URL box. This opens the router's internal webpages
once you logon with username admin
and password netgear
(it's in the manual how to do this if you need more help)

The router's configuration wizard will take over and ask you specific
questions to initially setup the router. Do what it wants, logout
normally, then log back into the router with the username/password again.
If given the chance to change the password under the wizard DO IT!
Everyone knows the default username/password for Netgear routers. Re-
name the password and WRITE IT DOWN SO YOU DON'T FORGET OR LOSE IT!
Write it right on the router's plastic box with a felt tip permanent
marker is a great place! No password, no router access....not good.

Ok, ignore the firmware upgrade of this new router. You'll never need it
unless it crashes. It won't.

Under ADVANCED click WIRELESS SETTINGS....
Ensure ENABLE WIRELESS RADIO, ENABLE SSID BROADCAST and ENABLE RANGE
XTENDER all have checkmarks. If not check them.

DO NOT LEAVE ANY PAGE YOU CHANGE ON THE ROUTER PAGES WITHOUT CLICKING THE
APPLY BUTTON TO WRITE THE DATA TO THE ROUTER'S EEPROM MEMORY.....or it
won't happen.

Click APPLY

Pick PORT FORWARDING and PORT TRIGGERING from the menu to open it.

Because you were a good boy and DIDN'T logon any other computer to this
new router, we'll assume its IP address to be 192.168.1.2 on a Netgear
router. Linksys uses whole different IPs that begin with 192.168.100.xxx

Click ADD CUSTOM SERVICE

We're now going to tell the ROUTER to ROUTE all calls to port 3389 to
192.168.1.2, the laptop....3389 is the Remote Desktop calling port.

Service Name - rdesktop
Starting port - 3389
Ending port - 3389
server IP address - 192.168.1.2
under SERVICE TYPE pick TCP from the picklist.

CLICK APPLY!!

You should now see the new custom port forwarding on the port forwarding
list. It's ready to go if you do....(c;

Click LOGOUT and the router will log you off its control panels.

There, now the laptop is all ready for your Remote Desktop from ANY
computer that has the username and password....even in Pakistan if it's
on the internet...(c;

Now we need to configure the N800 Tablet to use rdesktop to access it....
(c;

Almost all the fantastic software the Linux geniuses have written for the
Nokia internet tablets is in one place....
http://maemo.org/
a website established by Nokia to give the Maemo Linux community a
permanent home sponsored by the hardware company billionaires.

If you have a new N800, it comes with the original OS2007 Linux, which is
now obsolete. We're doing a complete reinstallation to upgrade N800's to
OS2008, also called Chinook for some reason, and it's the new OS for the
N810 with the keyboards. It's a FAR more advanced OS and every N800
needs this upgrade....which is butt EASY to do....

First we'll need to install the automatic N800 upgrade software on the
Windows XP/Vista PC....i.e. your laptop. Go to:
http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010
Read the page. What we're gonna do is to connect the N800 over the
provided USB cable to the laptop and completely burn a new OS into the
tablet's memory. MAKE SURE THE BATTERY IS FULLY CHARGED FIRST! The
power supply MUST be UNPLUGGED to upgrade the tablet!

Download and install on the laptop the Nokia Internet Tablet Software
Update Wizard, a WINDOWS program for the laptop. Do not connect the
tablet until told to do so. Follow the instructions, they're very
complete, EXCEPT DO NOT DO A BACKUP AND RESTORE as instructed because the
OS2007 softwares are incompatible with OS2008. Ignore that instruction,
we're starting from scratch!

Boot the software updater on the laptop....
It won't find the tablet because it isn't connected, yet.
Once it says there's no tablet, plug the tablet's USB port into the
laptop's USB port with the cable that comes with the tablet.
Press and HOLD the little HOUSE button, the lower button to the left of
the screen. While holding it pressed, click up the power button on top
and the tablet will go into USB mode, showing a NOKIA sign with a USB
logo in the upper right corner of the tablet.

The updater will have, by now, told you it found an N800 and you follow
the onscreen instructions to do the update. When a list of updates comes
on the screen, you pick the latest OS2008 (Chinook) with a version number
ending in 51-3 I think it is currently. the highest version
number....newest.

This takes a while as it has to erase EEPROM and burn in new code. Do
not interrupt it unless there's a nuclear event, in which case it won't
matter. Let the wizard install the new OS. It will tell you when it's
done. If it fails, no problem, just do it over again....I've yet to have
it fail.

The tablet will boot up just like it came out of the box asking you for
information, again because it is now in new condition. Enjoy the pretty
blue bubbles very appropriate to a boat environment...(c; The interface
looks much nicer on OS2008. It works the same way.

OK, we got OS2008 installed, up and running on the
tablet!....congratulations!

Now we'll need one piece of hacker software from:
http://maemo.org
from the tablet's new Mozilla (Firefox based) browser, a great
improvement over the Opera browser that was on OS2007, by the way. Boot
up the browser by clicking with the stylus on the world symbol in the
upper left corner of the display. Maemo's home page is preprogrammed
into the bookmarks for you. By the way, the browser's homepage is nicely
preset to Google, but in memory with all the important Maemo pages, too,
as click buttons for fast access. Go to the Maemo home page.....

The webpages KNOW what OS you're using so automatically take you to the
appropriate software list when you click DOWNLOAD....OS2008. When you
get to the software download page...add it to the browser's bookmarks so
you can get their fast. You'll be there a lot...a complete tablet addict
in no time at all. I bought the thing for Skype use....it only took 2
days for my tablet addiction to be complete. This is one GREAT device.

The software for the tablet, now over 200 products, is, UNfortunately,
arranged in Categories. It's terribly hard to find something called
rdesktop in there and the search engine searches NEWS, not software.
But, alas, Google is GREAT. Now that you know where the software is
stored for OS2008, ignore it for a moment. In your Google search box on
the toolbar or Google's webpage, enter:
rdesktop maemo
and let GOOGLE find the download page for you:
http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/rdesktop/
it will save you hours of searching, I assure you....(sigh)
Go to this rdesktop webpage WITH THE TABLET'S BROWSER NOT THE LAPTOP'S
and I'll show you how easy it is to install ANY of the softwares into
this little Linux box.....

Ok, have a look around the rdesktop webpage. Isn't that nice? No
mention of money, donations, open source. You'll get used to it...(c;
See the big green DOWNARROW?....hmm, says INSTALL. No, it can't be!

Click the green arrow and fasten your seatbelt. The tablet reacts
immediately to the .install extension of the green arrows. A box pops up
wanting to know what you want to do with this tiny .install text file.
Click the OPEN button and the tablet opens its APPLICATIONS MANAGER app,
automatically.

Wait...wait....hold it....hold it....App Manager came up and just sat
there...wait a few seconds....THERE! Now it's either going to ask you if
it's ok for it to install a new "catalog" to the app manager or warns you
this software isn't from Nokia and Nokia isn't responsible if you install
it because they had nothing to do with it! Either way, click OK and
check the seat belt. The application manager will renew its application
catalogs off the net. Eventually, this will become a much longer process
as you become more addicted and just HAVE to have more "STUFF". Catalogs
are not all stored at maemo because some of the Linux geniuses writing
this stuff are their own companies! It's quite safe....this is Linux!

You'll, finally, after being warned, be asked if you want to install
rdesktop. You do....click the final OK and App manager will install
rdesktop in the EXTRAS folder of the program selector icon in the middle
of the left panel. After it installs, open the selector, click EXTRAS to
see all the extra software clogging up the box and pick rdesktop from the
EXTRAS list. Rdesktop finally boots up....to a bunch of blank boxes you
have to fill in. Hey! It's not clairvoyant!

Now we need to tell rdesktop where the Remote Desktop computer is we want
to take over!.....

RDP Server is the laptop at IP 192.168.1.2 on a Netgear router....
Username is the username of that password-secured new user you made on
the laptop.
Password is the password you forgot to write down for this new user on
the laptop. Let's write it down so we don't have to fight it later...
Domain is MSHOME on all Windows boxes unless someone changed it. If they
did, you have to open SYSTEM back up and find it under Control Panel on
the laptop.
Disk sharing....click MEM CARDS and MY DOCS....the tablet will now send
and receive files from its memory cards and MyDocs folder to/from the
laptop.

Now we have a little problem......KEYBOARD!

rdesktop completely takes over your tablet away from its usual Maemo
interfaces, like the onscreen keyboard. It's a LINUX program and expects
you to have a desktop computer with a keyboard to type on. On the N810
tablet, there IS a little keyboard that slides out. On the cheaper N800,
there isn't. The solution is to buy a Nokia folding Bluetooth keyboard
for the tablet. Folded out, it's a first class, properly spaced, typist
keyboard, but with only 3 rows and a function key to get numbers and
punctuation that's not hard to adapt to. It's about $100 extra and worth
the money if you must type into the tablet, with or without rdesktop.

Because I don't think YOU need a keyboard to talk to this chartplotting
software, I'll just make a note of it here. If you get the BT keyboard,
check the box BT Keyboard on rdesktop's connection details.

Check "Save these settings" so we never have to type them all in again
next time we boot rdesktop. From now on, we'll boot rdesktop, click OK,
the screen goes BLACK raising your adrenaline level, then WINDOWS APPEARS
exactly like it shows up on the laptop! HOW COOL! WE'RE IN!

The stylus will do anything the mouse does on the rdesktop Windows
desktop. Double click needs to be set a little slower due to the
communications link between them being a little slower than a directly
connected mouse. You can now do anything you could do from the laptop's
keyboard/screen EXCEPT PLAY VIDEOS AND SOUNDS. If you click up an MP3
file from the tablet....Windows PLAYS IT ON THE LAPTOP like remote
control...driving my parrots just crazy because I do it when I'm not
home....(c;

Double click the chartplotter desktop icon and the plotter will boot and
run, normally, complete with chart/graphics all controlled from the
tablet....on the tablet's touchscreen. If you need a keyboard for
something....buy.com has them.
http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-su-8w-wireless-keyboard-
qwerty/q/loc/101/204709076.html
they also have about the cheapest prices on the N800 and N810.

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain the setup, Larry.

Unfortunately, Bill Gates ONE USER limitation kills it as you surmised in
your opening para. In my case, the laptop at the Nav station has to run the
Coastal Explorer software because it also transmits waypoint info to the
Raymarine autopilot.

What I was hoping for was simply to watch the same screen on the Nokia
tablet at the helm... is there any way to just use the Nokia as a second
display screen - "feeding" it from the VGA output on the laptop?





The helmsman cannot watch the laptop display of the chart plotter while
you're watching it from the tablet via remote desktop. Sorry....
However, if this isn't a problem remote desktop is done like this....:

"claus" wrote in
:

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain the setup, Larry.

Unfortunately, Bill Gates ONE USER limitation kills it as you surmised
in your opening para. In my case, the laptop at the Nav station has to
run the Coastal Explorer software because it also transmits waypoint
info to the Raymarine autopilot.

What I was hoping for was simply to watch the same screen on the Nokia
tablet at the helm... is there any way to just use the Nokia as a
second display screen - "feeding" it from the VGA output on the
laptop?

You can always run a virtual PC to solve this problem. Remember, PC stands
for Personal Computer, and the operating system was designed along that
path. Virtualization allows you to, in essence, run multiple copies of
Windows on a single piece of hardware. Search for "pc virtualization" to
see the multiple options that you have.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

You can always run a virtual PC to solve this problem.

And you could also use VNC inside each virtual session. Bearing in mind the
old saying "robbing Peter to pay Paul", virtual sessions require
considerable amounts of CPU power and RAM. This is less of a problem using
modern equipment. But a system capable of running virtual sessions
effectively is likely to chew up a significant amount of electrical power.
For desktop situations this isn't a big deal, but in a boat, running off a
12v system it certainly will be.

This is a bit off topic - but I am wondering if it is possible to connect
a Nokia N800 to my laptop at the Nav Station, running Coastal Explorer
software - and display the same screen (Coastal Explorer) on the Nokia?

If you run VNC on the PC you can use any number of VNC client programs to
talk to it. Works great for nearly everything but video and very high color
display. Given the widespread availability of VNC I'd have to guess there
is a client for the Nokia.