Have you guys been to:
http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/
Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays?

Take a look....(c;

My little Nokia N800 Linux internet tablet has an open source freeware
app the Linux hacker geniuses wrote called Maemo Mapper that uses these
tiles and a little Bluetooth GPS receiver (12 channel, WAAS-corrected,
very sensitive, size of a matchbox) to put a fix, track your progress, do
waypoints and plan routes on a wide variety of map tile repositories it
downloads and stores from open internet repositories such as Google,
Virtual Earth, open source map repositories, NOAA weather radar LIVE,
Terraserver, Runway Finder (latest aviation charts!)....etc., etc., more
every week. On the road, it connects to Points of Interest databases so
detailed it even has the self-serve laundromat up the street, complete
with their phone numbers you can use while ashore in some strange port,
lost as usual trying to find that maritime museum in Tahiti. You'll
carry the tablet while ashore walking around with the little GPS in your
watch pocket of your jeans. That way you won't get lost in Key West,
again, next time and can find that special bar right on the map!

I'm in contact with the guys who wrote Maemo Mapper (open source
freeware) for the Maemo Linux tablets, and am trying to get them to do
what's necessary to get Marine Charts, with your boat's position tracking
on top of them.....no, no...not those OLD, OBSOLETE charts from 1989 on
the damned expensive chart plugs....straight off the internet with the
latest charts available for FREE! So, there you are cruising the ICW or
your favorite Chesapeake Bay, tracking your course on top of the latest
marine chart...or...Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo...or...any of
many land mapping sources...with the LATEST weather radar picture
directly from the NOAA doppler radar available by clicking the WX icon
over any picture/chart/map...all in relation to your course being plotted
by a $230 Linux internet tablet connected through your Bluetooth cellular
phone's internet service to shore.....if it can connect, of course. If
not, it'll use the STORED maps/charts/tile photos from your two 16GB SDHC
memory cards ($59 ea at buy.com when I got mine.)

Interested??.....(c;

http://www.nseries.com/n800
the tablet....

http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/
all the freeware for it.

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/
the open source freeware mapper program
(installs on the tablet by coming to this page and clicking
that green arrow's .install program. Linux is easier than WinXP.)

http://www.youtube.com/results?
search_query=maemo+mapper&search_type=&aq=f
some older videos on using Maemo Mapper not related to a marine
environment....

Search Google for maemo mapper to get lots more info on this
fantastic little Linux program.....

------------------------------------------------------------------

So, there I hope you'll be, crusing down the ICW plotted within a couple
of ft by the little GPS up under the bimini in a ziplock bag. Wherever
you are on the boat, not just tethered to wires at the helm, you can look
at your tablet and see where you are on the chart. Wondering what the
terrain looks like up ahead, you click up the menu button to the left of
the screen, click MAPS and pick VE Hybrid from the list of repositories.
Maemo mapper switches itself from the NOAA chart to Virtual Earth's
latest satellite photo with all the local streets and roads around you
nicely plotted and labeled...EXACTLY where the chart just was with your
little blue icon in the center. You look up around the bend from a real
picture and see some docks to look out for sticking out from shore and
the fork in the ICW not far beyond you need to take the left channel on
according to the chart you just left. You press the WX clicker and NOAA
weather radar's NEXRAD displays on the satphoto (or chart as selected)
showing you a nasty thunderstorm about 12 miles ahead you've heard
banging away in the distance but can't see where it is for the trees and
terrain, here. Now you know the storm's exact location on the chart and
can keep an eye on it to see if it is approaching your course of going
the other way.....

Lying comfortably in your aft cabin with the tablet on your pillow, you
decide you can snooze a little longer before being needed on deck. You
put the tablet in LOCK mode, shutting down the display, but the programs
keep tracking your movements and that weather cell for instant retrieval
without having to boot up. In standby with the display off, you don't
need to charge it for days....It runs for 6 hours at full brightness, not
45 minutes like the damned laptop battery hog at the chart table. It
charges in an hour, ready for a few more watches....

This is what I'm trying to get the Mapper hackers to do for you...(c;

Not $1500, Not $2400, Not $699.......$230 for the tablet, $0 for the
software and data off your cellphone, $100 for the tiny GPS box that
recharges in an hour and runs for 22 on its little cellphone battery
that's also user changeable as easy as your cellphone's.

Still interested??

You'll switch Maemo Mapper to the runwayfinders.com aviation charts next
week when you fly down to Miami....exactly like this, too....(c;

After you've docked, you'll connect the tablet to the marina's wifi (it's
5 times as sensitive as the most expensive laptop we can find) so you can
click up Streamtuner and pick one of its 15,000 radio stations across the
planet streaming on the internet....or watch any number of internet
videos from youtube on MyTube those hackers wrote for it free....or use
mplayer to play one of the DivX movies you loaded on its external card
off alt.binaries.movies.divx newsgroup. Who needs XM?? How silly....

iPhone my ass.........

Larry,
You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of
me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds
like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the court ruling in an
accident liability case when you tell the court you were using uncertified
charts from the internet after causing massive property damage and or loss
of life.
Steve


"Larry" wrote in message
...
Have you guys been to:
http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/
Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays?

Take a look....(c;

My little Nokia N800 Linux internet tablet has an open source freeware
app the Linux hacker geniuses wrote called Maemo Mapper that uses these
tiles and a little Bluetooth GPS receiver (12 channel, WAAS-corrected,
very sensitive, size of a matchbox) to put a fix, track your progress, do
waypoints and plan routes on a wide variety of map tile repositories it
downloads and stores from open internet repositories such as Google,
Virtual Earth, open source map repositories, NOAA weather radar LIVE,
Terraserver, Runway Finder (latest aviation charts!)....etc., etc., more
every week. On the road, it connects to Points of Interest databases so
detailed it even has the self-serve laundromat up the street, complete
with their phone numbers you can use while ashore in some strange port,
lost as usual trying to find that maritime museum in Tahiti. You'll
carry the tablet while ashore walking around with the little GPS in your
watch pocket of your jeans. That way you won't get lost in Key West,
again, next time and can find that special bar right on the map!

I'm in contact with the guys who wrote Maemo Mapper (open source
freeware) for the Maemo Linux tablets, and am trying to get them to do
what's necessary to get Marine Charts, with your boat's position tracking
on top of them.....no, no...not those OLD, OBSOLETE charts from 1989 on
the damned expensive chart plugs....straight off the internet with the
latest charts available for FREE! So, there you are cruising the ICW or
your favorite Chesapeake Bay, tracking your course on top of the latest
marine chart...or...Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo...or...any of
many land mapping sources...with the LATEST weather radar picture
directly from the NOAA doppler radar available by clicking the WX icon
over any picture/chart/map...all in relation to your course being plotted
by a $230 Linux internet tablet connected through your Bluetooth cellular
phone's internet service to shore.....if it can connect, of course. If
not, it'll use the STORED maps/charts/tile photos from your two 16GB SDHC
memory cards ($59 ea at buy.com when I got mine.)

Interested??.....(c;

http://www.nseries.com/n800
the tablet....

http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/
all the freeware for it.

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/
the open source freeware mapper program
(installs on the tablet by coming to this page and clicking
that green arrow's .install program. Linux is easier than WinXP.)

http://www.youtube.com/results?
search_query=maemo+mapper&search_type=&aq=f
some older videos on using Maemo Mapper not related to a marine
environment....

Search Google for maemo mapper to get lots more info on this
fantastic little Linux program.....

------------------------------------------------------------------

So, there I hope you'll be, crusing down the ICW plotted within a couple
of ft by the little GPS up under the bimini in a ziplock bag. Wherever
you are on the boat, not just tethered to wires at the helm, you can look
at your tablet and see where you are on the chart. Wondering what the
terrain looks like up ahead, you click up the menu button to the left of
the screen, click MAPS and pick VE Hybrid from the list of repositories.
Maemo mapper switches itself from the NOAA chart to Virtual Earth's
latest satellite photo with all the local streets and roads around you
nicely plotted and labeled...EXACTLY where the chart just was with your
little blue icon in the center. You look up around the bend from a real
picture and see some docks to look out for sticking out from shore and
the fork in the ICW not far beyond you need to take the left channel on
according to the chart you just left. You press the WX clicker and NOAA
weather radar's NEXRAD displays on the satphoto (or chart as selected)
showing you a nasty thunderstorm about 12 miles ahead you've heard
banging away in the distance but can't see where it is for the trees and
terrain, here. Now you know the storm's exact location on the chart and
can keep an eye on it to see if it is approaching your course of going
the other way.....

Lying comfortably in your aft cabin with the tablet on your pillow, you
decide you can snooze a little longer before being needed on deck. You
put the tablet in LOCK mode, shutting down the display, but the programs
keep tracking your movements and that weather cell for instant retrieval
without having to boot up. In standby with the display off, you don't
need to charge it for days....It runs for 6 hours at full brightness, not
45 minutes like the damned laptop battery hog at the chart table. It
charges in an hour, ready for a few more watches....

This is what I'm trying to get the Mapper hackers to do for you...(c;

Not $1500, Not $2400, Not $699.......$230 for the tablet, $0 for the
software and data off your cellphone, $100 for the tiny GPS box that
recharges in an hour and runs for 22 on its little cellphone battery
that's also user changeable as easy as your cellphone's.

Still interested??

You'll switch Maemo Mapper to the runwayfinders.com aviation charts next
week when you fly down to Miami....exactly like this, too....(c;

After you've docked, you'll connect the tablet to the marina's wifi (it's
5 times as sensitive as the most expensive laptop we can find) so you can
click up Streamtuner and pick one of its 15,000 radio stations across the
planet streaming on the internet....or watch any number of internet
videos from youtube on MyTube those hackers wrote for it free....or use
mplayer to play one of the DivX movies you loaded on its external card
off alt.binaries.movies.divx newsgroup. Who needs XM?? How silly....

iPhone my ass.........

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Larry,
You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell
out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this
progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine
the court ruling in an accident liability case when you tell the
court you were using uncertified charts from the internet after
causing massive property damage and or loss of life.
Steve


"Larry" wrote in message
...
Have you guys been to:
http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/
Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays?

Take a look....(c;

My little Nokia N800 Linux internet tablet has an open source
freeware app the Linux hacker geniuses wrote called Maemo Mapper
that uses these tiles and a little Bluetooth GPS receiver (12
channel, WAAS-corrected, very sensitive, size of a matchbox) to put
a fix, track your progress, do waypoints and plan routes on a wide
variety of map tile repositories it downloads and stores from open
internet repositories such as Google, Virtual Earth, open source map
repositories, NOAA weather radar LIVE, Terraserver, Runway Finder
(latest aviation charts!)....etc., etc., more every week. On the
road, it connects to Points of Interest databases so detailed it
even has the self-serve laundromat up the street, complete with
their phone numbers you can use while ashore in some strange port,
lost as usual trying to find that maritime museum in Tahiti. You'll
carry the tablet while ashore walking around with the little GPS in
your watch pocket of your jeans. That way you won't get lost in Key
West, again, next time and can find that special bar right on the
map!

I'm in contact with the guys who wrote Maemo Mapper (open source
freeware) for the Maemo Linux tablets, and am trying to get them to
do what's necessary to get Marine Charts, with your boat's position
tracking on top of them.....no, no...not those OLD, OBSOLETE charts
from 1989 on the damned expensive chart plugs....straight off the
internet with the latest charts available for FREE! So, there you
are cruising the ICW or your favorite Chesapeake Bay, tracking your
course on top of the latest marine chart...or...Virtual Earth's
latest satellite photo...or...any of many land mapping
sources...with the LATEST weather radar picture directly from the
NOAA doppler radar available by clicking the WX icon over any
picture/chart/map...all in relation to your course being plotted by
a $230 Linux internet tablet connected through your Bluetooth
cellular phone's internet service to shore.....if it can connect, of
course. If not, it'll use the STORED maps/charts/tile photos from
your two 16GB SDHC memory cards ($59 ea at buy.com when I got mine.)

Interested??.....(c;

http://www.nseries.com/n800
the tablet....

http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/
all the freeware for it.

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/
the open source freeware mapper program
(installs on the tablet by coming to this page and clicking
that green arrow's .install program. Linux is easier than WinXP.)

http://www.youtube.com/results?
search_query=maemo+mapper&search_type=&aq=f
some older videos on using Maemo Mapper not related to a marine
environment....

Search Google for maemo mapper to get lots more info on this
fantastic little Linux program.....

------------------------------------------------------------------

So, there I hope you'll be, crusing down the ICW plotted within a
couple of ft by the little GPS up under the bimini in a ziplock bag.
Wherever you are on the boat, not just tethered to wires at the
helm, you can look at your tablet and see where you are on the
chart. Wondering what the terrain looks like up ahead, you click up
the menu button to the left of the screen, click MAPS and pick VE
Hybrid from the list of repositories. Maemo mapper switches itself
from the NOAA chart to Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo with
all the local streets and roads around you nicely plotted and
labeled...EXACTLY where the chart just was with your little blue
icon in the center. You look up around the bend from a real picture
and see some docks to look out for sticking out from shore and the
fork in the ICW not far beyond you need to take the left channel on
according to the chart you just left. You press the WX clicker and
NOAA weather radar's NEXRAD displays on the satphoto (or chart as
selected) showing you a nasty thunderstorm about 12 miles ahead
you've heard banging away in the distance but can't see where it is
for the trees and terrain, here. Now you know the storm's exact
location on the chart and can keep an eye on it to see if it is
approaching your course of going the other way.....

Lying comfortably in your aft cabin with the tablet on your pillow,
you decide you can snooze a little longer before being needed on
deck. You put the tablet in LOCK mode, shutting down the display,
but the programs keep tracking your movements and that weather cell
for instant retrieval without having to boot up. In standby with
the display off, you don't need to charge it for days....It runs for
6 hours at full brightness, not 45 minutes like the damned laptop
battery hog at the chart table. It charges in an hour, ready for a
few more watches....

This is what I'm trying to get the Mapper hackers to do for you...(c;

Not $1500, Not $2400, Not $699.......$230 for the tablet, $0 for the
software and data off your cellphone, $100 for the tiny GPS box that
recharges in an hour and runs for 22 on its little cellphone battery
that's also user changeable as easy as your cellphone's.

Still interested??

You'll switch Maemo Mapper to the runwayfinders.com aviation charts
next week when you fly down to Miami....exactly like this, too....(c;

After you've docked, you'll connect the tablet to the marina's wifi
(it's 5 times as sensitive as the most expensive laptop we can find)
so you can click up Streamtuner and pick one of its 15,000 radio
stations across the planet streaming on the internet....or watch any
number of internet videos from youtube on MyTube those hackers wrote
for it free....or use mplayer to play one of the DivX movies you
loaded on its external card off alt.binaries.movies.divx newsgroup.
Who needs XM?? How silly....

iPhone my ass.........

I think he means NOAA charts of the US coastline. Not much use to us Brits!

If it's taken the Linux guys 12 years or more to catch up with the likes of
Oziexplorer, think of the startup problems likely to be inherent in the
software.


Dennis.

You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of
me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress?
Sounds like stupidity to me.

Larry and stupidity? Goes hand in hand, especially when he's flogging his
masturbatory dream; that Nokia tablet.

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:32:48 -0400, "Bill Kearney"
wrote:

You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of
me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress?
Sounds like stupidity to me.

Larry and stupidity? Goes hand in hand, especially when he's flogging his
masturbatory dream; that Nokia tablet.

Bill,

There is no call for this type of response that has been the hallmark
of Wilbur and his alias's on this group. If you disagree with Larry
there is no need to post such a response.

I have found Larry to be a very useful and informed poster.

regards
Peter

"Herodotus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:32:48 -0400, "Bill Kearney"
wrote:

You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out
of
me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress?
Sounds like stupidity to me.

Larry and stupidity? Goes hand in hand, especially when he's flogging his
masturbatory dream; that Nokia tablet.

There is no call for this type of response that has been the hallmark
of Wilbur and his alias's on this group. If you disagree with Larry
there is no need to post such a response.

To each his own.

I have found Larry to be a very useful and informed poster.

Sadly while that may have been true in the past it's not any longer.

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
:

Larry,
You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell
out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this
progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the
court ruling in an accident liability case when you tell the court you
were using uncertified charts from the internet after causing massive
property damage and or loss of life.
Steve



The charts are REAL NOAA CERTIFIED CHARTS, just like you pay out the ass
for old ones at Waste Marine......SAME CHARTS ONLY UP-TO-DATE! Is that
loud enough to get through to you?

The NOAA Charts on Ocean Google are those new charts! You can access them
from any browser over an aircard on your laptop NOW if you have internet
cellular service.

These are only good in the USA, not Germany.

Larry,
No, the chart source is only one issue in the certification process, it is
not getting through to me. The risks are still there and the more elements
involved, the greater the risk. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I for one
could not rely on any electronic display for critical navigation anywhere.
The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear screen
inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer. In order to
express the detail, it is necessary to drill down and that info may or not
be there. When it is, that's all you see, the big picture is lost. If your
hobby is computers and networking, enjoy it, but do not rely on this
technology, it is not robust, it is not everywhere and it simply is not
ready for prime time.
Steve

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
:

Larry,
You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell
out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this
progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the
court ruling in an accident liability case when you tell the court you
were using uncertified charts from the internet after causing massive
property damage and or loss of life.
Steve



The charts are REAL NOAA CERTIFIED CHARTS, just like you pay out the ass
for old ones at Waste Marine......SAME CHARTS ONLY UP-TO-DATE! Is that
loud enough to get through to you?

The NOAA Charts on Ocean Google are those new charts! You can access them
from any browser over an aircard on your laptop NOW if you have internet
cellular service.

These are only good in the USA, not Germany.

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Larry,
No, the chart source is only one issue in the certification process, it is
not getting through to me. The risks are still there and the more elements
involved, the greater the risk. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I for one
could not rely on any electronic display for critical navigation anywhere.
The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear screen
inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer. In order to
express the detail, it is necessary to drill down and that info may or not
be there. When it is, that's all you see, the big picture is lost. If your
hobby is computers and networking, enjoy it, but do not rely on this
technology, it is not robust, it is not everywhere and it simply is not
ready for prime time.

So, are you claiming that anyone who uses a chartplotter is a danger to
himself and those around him? While I'm still not ready to give up on
paper, my new Garmin 545 (5 inch, hi res) was a joy to use during a
mostly fogbound Maine cruise last summer. The biggest change over my 10
year GPS is the speed at which it can zoom in/out.

OTOH, I've been playing with a low power Linux laptop with a GPS puck
running chart software, and while its fun, I've not been convinced it
can replace a dedicated machine.

Jeff,
I absolutely stand by what I stated. Please do not confuse my comments with
the dedicated and certified professional chart systems that are available
and in use, but those are not what Larry has spoken about. Those
professional systems are very expensive and they are supported with
maintenance subscriptions for continuous updates for both software and
source data without which, certifications are no longer valid. Please also
note that they are NOT ever used without paper chart back up. This is not
hypothetical, please recall a couple of years back the USAF DC9 that was
transporting a US Senator in Yugoslavia using electronic Jepperson Plates
looking for a local airport and flew into a mountainside in poor visibility
because the Plate was in error and that system was certified. Even the
professional systems are subject to same limitations I mentioned before.
Sure, they are fun to play with, but they are unreliable, inadequately
tested, often in error and are dangerous if taken as the last word. Use them
at your own risk.
Steve

"jeff" wrote in message
...
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Larry,
No, the chart source is only one issue in the certification process, it
is not getting through to me. The risks are still there and the more
elements involved, the greater the risk. I appreciate your enthusiasm,
but I for one could not rely on any electronic display for critical
navigation anywhere. The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+
pixels per linear screen inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a
lithograph printer. In order to express the detail, it is necessary to
drill down and that info may or not be there. When it is, that's all you
see, the big picture is lost. If your hobby is computers and networking,
enjoy it, but do not rely on this technology, it is not robust, it is not
everywhere and it simply is not ready for prime time.

So, are you claiming that anyone who uses a chartplotter is a danger to
himself and those around him? While I'm still not ready to give up on
paper, my new Garmin 545 (5 inch, hi res) was a joy to use during a mostly
fogbound Maine cruise last summer. The biggest change over my 10 year GPS
is the speed at which it can zoom in/out.

OTOH, I've been playing with a low power Linux laptop with a GPS puck
running chart software, and while its fun, I've not been convinced it can
replace a dedicated machine.