On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:39:47 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:01:45 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

As soon as you put the
engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up
the
forestay.

Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail
along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation
arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in
neutral to reassert your rights.

That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine
is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just
shift into neutral whenever it was convenient.


Is there some U.S. version of the regulations as the international
regulations I carry state:

(b) The term power-driven vessel means any vessel propelled by
machinery.

(c) The term sailing vessel means any vessel under sail provided that
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

No where does it discuss the engine being in gear, or not.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)


"propelled by machinery" -- if it's not being used to propel the boat, it's
not a powerboat according to the rules. Look at the limiting case. The
engine is running, but there's no tranny (or it's broken). It's running, but
nothing is happening. Thus, in their eyes, "being used" means propelling the
boat not just running.


That was my point.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:04:41 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:04:03 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:22:08 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

No. The standard COLREGS book has the International rules on one page and
the corresponding Inland rule on the facing page. Differences are sometimes
noted as well. There are very few differences but some are quite important.
Nothing about engine engagement or disengagement though.

Big ships all have direct drive engines. If the engine in running the
prop is turning. You stop it and restart it turning the other way for
reverse.

Casady

Depends on what you mean by "big ships" A LCC will have a direct drive
but a big, to me, oil field supply boat, say, 3,000 H.P. had a normal
forward/reverse gear box.

Boxboats and tankers are nearly all direct drive. A gearbox
would likely cost as much as the engine.

Hundred ton German torpedo boats had direct drive. They carried enough
compressed air for just one start. The compressor was on the dock.

Running out off air because of a lot of manuvering can cause delay
while the air tanks are refilled and there are other other worse
things that can happen.

Casady

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:27:57 -0400, wrote:

Yes. If you were other than the novice you run around accusing others of being,
you would know that a 36 foot sailboat with engine off, and a 36 powerboat with
the motor off are equals in the pecking order.

Not necessarily, it depends why the powerboat engine is off. If the
engine is off because it is broken, then the powerboat is NUC, Not
Under Command, and should be displaying appropriate signals. If the
powerboat is NUC, the sailboat becomes the giveway vessel (assuming it
is underway and making way).

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:03:40 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

Of course there is no difference between a boat under command and one
not under command. Really?

Get thee to captain's school.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:27:20 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

There _is_ a steam ship on Lake Michigan. A car ferry, it has coal
fired boilers and piston engines, Fifty years old. The SS Badger it
is, and they have a website.

I've been on it, looks a bit like the Titanic from a distance.

Bob wrote in
:

On Apr 22, 2:47*pm, otnmbrd wrote:
:

There are still a number of ships out there using steam.
The problems with direct drive diesels and starting, though not gone,
are much more rare.
Diesel electric is out there, especially for those using Azipod
(different

than Z-drive)
There are many cargo ships using "variable pitch"


My Dear Mr. Casady:
I see that you are a mariner and most likely a past Seaman.
Steam is not all that obscure. dont forget the the nuc navy is all
steam.
As far as variable pitched prop....... the fishing industry uses VP on
some of the factory trawlers and long liners. Open any National
Fisherman and there will be a few ads for VP props.

Thank you for varifying the obvious for thoes less knowledgable.
Bob



My name is not Casady. Vp is not the norm but not uncommon on large
ships.

otn

(Richard Casady) wrote in
:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:47:50 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Apr 22, 2:47*pm, otnmbrd wrote:
:

There are still a number of ships out there using steam.
The problems with direct drive diesels and starting, though not
gone, are much more rare.
Diesel electric is out there, especially for those using Azipod
(different than Z-drive)
There are many cargo ships using "variable pitch"


Since my post was about large cargo ships, I didn't mention VP or
steam since neither are used much on tankers and the big freighters.
There _is_ a steam ship on Lake Michigan. A car ferry, it has coal
fired boilers and piston engines, Fifty years old. The SS Badger it
is, and they have a website.

My post was also about large cargo ships and both are more common than
you think, though not the norm.

otn

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:27:57 -0400, wrote:

Yes. If you were other than the novice you run around accusing others of
being,
you would know that a 36 foot sailboat with engine off, and a 36 powerboat
with
the motor off are equals in the pecking order.

Not necessarily, it depends why the powerboat engine is off. If the
engine is off because it is broken, then the powerboat is NUC, Not
Under Command, and should be displaying appropriate signals. If the
powerboat is NUC, the sailboat becomes the giveway vessel (assuming it
is underway and making way).



Huh? If the PB's engine's off, then how could it be anything but NUC unless
it's anchored or docked? It has no other means of propulsion. You can't even
steer if you don't have engine. Do you like to turn off your engine and
coast?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:11:44 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Huh? If the PB's engine's off, then how could it be anything but NUC unless
it's anchored or docked? It has no other means of propulsion. You can't even
steer if you don't have engine. Do you like to turn off your engine and
coast?

Many people drift fish with the engine off. You are not NUC unless
you are disabled.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:08:54 GMT, wrote:

In my example, the sailboat is not sailing. Both are drifting and NUC. They are
equal in the pecking order. The poster I was replying to, was trying to make
some wacky non-point about a powerboat not being a powerboat when it's engine is
shut off. He felt there was some difference between a sailboat drifting and a
powerboat drifting.

You are not NUC unless something is broken.