In a thread seriously adrift from its original discussion, Wilbur
postulated:

If a motor vessel is drifting with its motor not running is it
"Underway" or "Making Way" and is it still a vessel propelled by
machenery?

Sorry, but the correct term is "under way, not making way." If the
motors
are not running and it is not anchored then the vessel is said to be
"adrift."
(end Wilbur)

If the phrase in quotes was meant to mean it was under way, but not
making way, I agree. As I understood the "commentary" during our time
in tutelage for our USCG OUPVs, "under way" meant that you were
moving, however that might have been. "Making way" meant that you
were being propelled, however that may have been (not carried, as in
current).

And, "Not Under Command" meant not that there wasn't someone at the
helm, or in charge, but that the vessel's direction could not be
controlled with some steering device. Thus, during our steering
failure, I advised the helm of the incoming freighter on my way out of
Charleston, last summer, that while under way, I was not under
command, but would endeavour to remove our vessel from his path (which
I did by application of (immobile) rudder position, throttle and
gearshift to take advantage of currents and winds at the time). The
helm thanked us for a timely repositioning and went on in.

Anchored and aground were two different situations, and from all the
time spent on the subject in the "commentary" I assume that being
aground is a very common occurrence for International traffic. I'm
inferring that great level of discussion to be a product of anchoring
not being subject to release as easily (or unintentionally, perhaps a
better way to put it) as floating off (after which one would no longer
be "aground" - but could be NUC, and under way), thus posing a
potential risk to navigation.

I'm sure our resident legal jurisprudent master will expand on and
elucidate the commentary on such a situation. For ourselves, being at
anchor and aground simultaneously, such as was the case in St.
Michael's, MD immediately prior to Pres. Bush the present's commentary
on the rockfish sporting circumstances of the area, we've found, is a
reasonably secure way to insure that we won't represent a drifting
hazard to other craft :{)) nor, as was definitely of issue at the
time, a security risk to the President (at least, based on the
oppressive Secret Service presence preventing my kedging off when we
wanted to leave at high tide).

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
In a thread seriously adrift from its original discussion, Wilbur
postulated:

If a motor vessel is drifting with its motor not running is it
"Underway" or "Making Way" and is it still a vessel propelled by
machenery?

Sorry, Skippy, but you need to re-tune your filters so you won't be so
chronically confused. I did not write the above but I did write the rebuttal
you copied and pasted below.

Wilbur Hubbard



Sorry, but the correct term is "under way, not making way." If the
motors
are not running and it is not anchored then the vessel is said to be
"adrift."
(end Wilbur)

If the phrase in quotes was meant to mean it was under way, but not
making way, I agree. As I understood the "commentary" during our time
in tutelage for our USCG OUPVs, "under way" meant that you were
moving, however that might have been. "Making way" meant that you
were being propelled, however that may have been (not carried, as in
current).

And, "Not Under Command" meant not that there wasn't someone at the
helm, or in charge, but that the vessel's direction could not be
controlled with some steering device. Thus, during our steering
failure, I advised the helm of the incoming freighter on my way out of
Charleston, last summer, that while under way, I was not under
command, but would endeavour to remove our vessel from his path (which
I did by application of (immobile) rudder position, throttle and
gearshift to take advantage of currents and winds at the time). The
helm thanked us for a timely repositioning and went on in.

Anchored and aground were two different situations, and from all the
time spent on the subject in the "commentary" I assume that being
aground is a very common occurrence for International traffic. I'm
inferring that great level of discussion to be a product of anchoring
not being subject to release as easily (or unintentionally, perhaps a
better way to put it) as floating off (after which one would no longer
be "aground" - but could be NUC, and under way), thus posing a
potential risk to navigation.

I'm sure our resident legal jurisprudent master will expand on and
elucidate the commentary on such a situation. For ourselves, being at
anchor and aground simultaneously, such as was the case in St.
Michael's, MD immediately prior to Pres. Bush the present's commentary
on the rockfish sporting circumstances of the area, we've found, is a
reasonably secure way to insure that we won't represent a drifting
hazard to other craft :{)) nor, as was definitely of issue at the
time, a security risk to the President (at least, based on the
oppressive Secret Service presence preventing my kedging off when we
wanted to leave at high tide).

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

On Apr 21, 4:36 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

...

In a thread seriously adrift from its original discussion, Wilbur
postulated:

If a motor vessel is drifting with its motor not running is it
"Underway" or "Making Way" and is it still a vessel propelled by
machenery?

Sorry, Skippy, but you need to re-tune your filters so you won't be so
chronically confused. I did not write the above but I did write the rebuttal
you copied and pasted below.

Wilbur Hubbard

In a thread seriously adrift from its original discussion, Wilbur postulated:

If a motor vessel is drifting with its motor not running is it
"Underway" or "Making Way" and is it still a vessel propelled by
machenery?

Sorry, but the correct term is "under way, not making way." If the
motors
are not running and it is not anchored then the vessel is said to be
"adrift."
(end Wilbur)


Sorry, Wilbur, but you need to review the way usenet attributes stuff.

Nowhere did you see anything like
On Apr 21, 4:36 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Or, even like:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message


in my original.

However, you either intentionally or stupidly overlooked, ignored, or
simply missed, in your haste to discredit me,

*Sorry, but the correct term is "under way, not making way." If the
motors
are not running and it is not anchored then the vessel is said to be
"adrift."
(end Wilbur)* (emphasis added)

Any cretin would have understood that, without a leading attribution,
the parts with the carats was someone else speaking, and, given my
lead-in, that the part which had "(end Wilbur)" under it referred to
*your* part of a snipped posting.

And, furthermore, you misattributed your rebuttal, citing the entire
posting I'd shown with the prior poster, remaining nameless, and your
rejoinder. Or, perhaps, it was you in both cases??

And, here, I was looking forward to your erudition on all these
terms. My bad.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

On Apr 21, 4:36 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
some stuff, but..

PS and you even missed the opportunity to upbraid me for my being
aground, one I brought to you on a silver platter. What is this world
coming to, I ask you???

L8R

Skip

On Apr 21, 4:36 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
some stuff, but..

PS and you even missed the opportunity to upbraid me for my being
aground, one I brought to you on a silver platter. What is this world
coming to, I ask you???

L8R

Skip

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
Sorry, Wilbur, but you need to review the way usenet attributes stuff.

Nowhere did you see anything like
On Apr 21, 4:36 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

But I DID see the following which is a copy and paste from your OP:

"In a thread seriously adrift from its original discussion, Wilbur
postulated:

" If a motor vessel is drifting with its motor not running is it
"Underway" or "Making Way" and is it still a vessel propelled by
machenery?"

So, get a clue!

Wilbur Hubbard

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
However, you either intentionally or stupidly overlooked, ignored, or
simply missed, in your haste to discredit me,

First off, perhaps you should learn how to snip that which is not germaine
to the discussion at hand.

Your statement above is just not so. Look at your OP and you will see where
in YOUR haste to make some lame point you claimed I wrote that which was
written by another.

Any cretin would have understood that, without a leading attribution,
the parts with the carats was someone else speaking, and, given my
lead-in, that the part which had "(end Wilbur)" under it referred to
*your* part of a snipped posting.

Negative. Your newsreader is doing a **** poor job of inserting carets. When
they should be doubled up they are not. Get something that works or learn to
work what you have, please.

And, furthermore, you misattributed your rebuttal, citing the entire
posting I'd shown with the prior poster, remaining nameless, and your
rejoinder. Or, perhaps, it was you in both cases??

Negative again! Just as is the case in this post your words are carated and
mine are not.

And, here, I was looking forward to your erudition on all these
terms. My bad.

What terms?

Wilbur Hubbard

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...

PS and you even missed the opportunity to upbraid me for my being
aground, one I brought to you on a silver platter. What is this world
coming to, I ask you???


You're aground so often that it's hardly noteworthy! I did make a couple of
snide comments about your propensity towards being aground is posts
elsewhere in this group or maybe in alt.sailing.asa and I even referred you
your Flying Pig as Stuck Pig but I guess you had those kill filed.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Apr 21, 5:18 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
Skip,

Having sat through the classes and hit the books more recently than anyone
else here (as far as I know) what's your take on the great
engine-running-but-not-in-gear controversy?

--
Roger Long

Hi, Roger,

My understanding is that without the equipment propelling the vessel,
you can have all manner of machinery running and either not be making
way or, perhaps, even/also, not under way. If you're not driving the
propulsion equipment, you're not a power vessel.

However, in an admiralty court, I suspect that if you had the means to
engage propulsion at an instant, but did not, you might have borne
more fault than if you were operating without any propulsion equipment
available at a touch. I don't consider touching an ignition switch
without any of the normal startup procedures being followed as
"available at a touch" but I think a reasonable man would conclude
that if you've gone through all the usual startup procedures and are
otherwise operating the power source, you could, safely, at an
instant, engage propulsion. If doing so would have avoided a
collision, I'd expect a responsibility to be assigned if it were not
exercised.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Skip,

Having sat through the classes and hit the books more recently than anyone
else here (as far as I know) what's your take on the great
engine-running-but-not-in-gear controversy?

--
Roger Long

Well, I was checking my stuffing box because it had recently been adjusted.
I moved all the crap out of the laz to get to the access hatch, wedged
myself in there, flashlight in hand, had to crouch significantly to see and
was nicely wedged in. So, I take a look and it's not leaking and I can put
my hand on it, so the temp is right. Cool, so I climb out after some
struggling, put all the crap back in, close and lock the laz, and *then* I
realize that I didn't have the engine engaged. Sigh....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com