On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

As soon as you put the
engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up the
forestay.

Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail
along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation
arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in
neutral to reassert your rights.

That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine
is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just
shift into neutral whenever it was convenient.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

As soon as you put the
engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up
the
forestay.

Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail
along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation
arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in
neutral to reassert your rights.

That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine
is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just
shift into neutral whenever it was convenient.



Nope... not good enough. It would not be clear to the other boat. They would
still likely assume you're engine is engaged. The rules are fairly clear. If
you're being "propelled" by an engine, then you're a powerboat. If you're
not, you're not. But, the issue is one of potential confusion, which you're
obligated to mitigate. What you describe is going to make the situation
worse not better.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:01:45 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

As soon as you put the
engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up the
forestay.

Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail
along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation
arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in
neutral to reassert your rights.

That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine
is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just
shift into neutral whenever it was convenient.


Is there some U.S. version of the regulations as the international
regulations I carry state:

(b) The term power-driven vessel means any vessel propelled by
machinery.

(c) The term sailing vessel means any vessel under sail provided that
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

No where does it discuss the engine being in gear, or not.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Apr 21, 1:46*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


You're aground so often that it's hardly noteworthy!

Wilbur Hubbard

Oh my god !
What the **** ! ! !

Willbur Hubbard just got schooled by SKIP!

You go SKip !

Bob

Wayne.B wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:


As soon as you put the
engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up the
forestay.


Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail
along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation
arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in
neutral to reassert your rights.

That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine
is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just
shift into neutral whenever it was convenient.



Convenient to what?

CAUSE a collision?

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:48:38 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:


As soon as you put the
engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up the
forestay.


Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail
along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation
arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in
neutral to reassert your rights.

That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine
is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just
shift into neutral whenever it was convenient.



Convenient to what?

CAUSE a collision?


I asked in a different post if y'all were referring to some U.S.
edition of the so called Col Rebs., as the international version I
have refers only to :

(b) The term power-driven vessel means any vessel propelled by
machinery.

(c) The term sailing vessel means any vessel under sail provided that
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

No where does it discuss the engine being in gear, or not. If there is
a U.S. version that uses different terms, or meanings, is different
from the normally internationally used version I should like to be
aware of it.





Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:01:51 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:02:03 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:01:45 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

As soon as you put the
engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up the
forestay.

Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail
along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation
arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in
neutral to reassert your rights.

That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine
is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just
shift into neutral whenever it was convenient.


Is there some U.S. version of the regulations as the international
regulations I carry state:

(b) The term power-driven vessel means any vessel propelled by
machinery.

(c) The term sailing vessel means any vessel under sail provided that
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

No where does it discuss the engine being in gear, or not.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

In fact the engine itself is not mentioned at all. Only the "propelling
machinery". On most sailboats, the engine has more than one purpose, and can be
used in conjunction with other parts to become propelling machinery, or it can
be an electricity generating machine, or a refrigeration compressor. You could
even have a sailboat with an engine for use as all of the above EXCEPT for
propelling machinery. Ho about I'm off on a cruise and I somehow manage to
destroy my prop on a rock? On the way home for the next several days, I still
have to run the engine to keep the batteries up and the reefer cold. Does that
make me a powerboat? I still have all the same equipment, except i can no longer
PROPELL my boat with that running machinery.

A baseball bat is not a "deadly weapon" until you swing it at someone's head.
:')



But that seems to be covered by the rule "The term power-driven vessel
means any vessel propelled by machinery." Obviously if it is not
propelled by machinery it is not classified as a "power driven
vessel".

Thus my question. the International regs seem quite straight forward
but there4 has been much mention of in grat/out of gear that I do not
see in the regs. I was wondering whether there was some U.S.
modification or amendment of the regs that modifies their use or
intent in US waters.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Apr 22, 4:01*am, wrote:

A baseball bat is not a "deadly weapon" until you swing it at someone's head.


This is the problem using analogies as support in an argument. They
usually don’t work cause some one like me can use another analogy to
refute the Baseball analogy. For example,

Just because I have a screw diver and a crescent wrench in my pocket
doesn’t mean I am a burglar yet..... a cop can stop me and arrest my
ass for “possession of burglar tools.” BTW this happened to me when I
was 18 yo after working on a friends boat. I stuck the screwdriver and
crescent wrench in my hip pocket walked home at 9 PM and got stopped
by a cop. The cop took me to the station and was going to charge me
with “possession of burglar tools.” Who is right?

Just because my engine is running and NOT engaged does that mean im
NOT propelled by machinery? Does that mean when a motor vessel shuts
down the engines that makes it NOT a motor vessel?

Man up and be a true conservative. I am Democrat and a true
conservative. When my motor is running for any reason on my sailboat I
consider my self propelled by machinery, act accordingly, and don’t
try to chicken **** the rules.
BOB

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:22:08 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

No. The standard COLREGS book has the International rules on one page and
the corresponding Inland rule on the facing page. Differences are sometimes
noted as well. There are very few differences but some are quite important.
Nothing about engine engagement or disengagement though.

Big ships all have direct drive engines. If the engine in running the
prop is turning. You stop it and restart it turning the other way for
reverse.

Casady

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote

Nope... not good enough. It would not be clear to the other boat. They
would still likely assume you're engine is engaged. The rules are fairly
clear. If you're being "propelled" by an engine, then you're a powerboat.
If you're not, you're not. But, the issue is one of potential confusion,
which you're obligated to mitigate. What you describe is going to make
the situation worse not better.


I believe there is also a rule, or at least an interpretation, that you
may not resolve a crossing situation that switches you from being the
burdened to the stand-on-vessel. The status is determined at the time
that the situation becomes one that requires application of the rules to
resolve.

--
Roger Long

There is... just don't have it at the tip of my finger... There's one about
overtaking... that you have to be well-clear.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com