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#21
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
... On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:01:45 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote: As soon as you put the engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up the forestay. Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in neutral to reassert your rights. That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just shift into neutral whenever it was convenient. Is there some U.S. version of the regulations as the international regulations I carry state: (b) The term power-driven vessel means any vessel propelled by machinery. (c) The term sailing vessel means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used. No where does it discuss the engine being in gear, or not. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) "propelled by machinery" -- if it's not being used to propel the boat, it's not a powerboat according to the rules. Look at the limiting case. The engine is running, but there's no tranny (or it's broken). It's running, but nothing is happening. Thus, in their eyes, "being used" means propelling the boat not just running. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#22
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
"Bob" wrote in message
... On Apr 22, 4:01 am, wrote: A baseball bat is not a "deadly weapon" until you swing it at someone's head. This is the problem using analogies as support in an argument. They usually don’t work cause some one like me can use another analogy to refute the Baseball analogy. For example, Just because I have a screw diver and a crescent wrench in my pocket doesn’t mean I am a burglar yet..... a cop can stop me and arrest my ass for “possession of burglar tools.” BTW this happened to me when I was 18 yo after working on a friends boat. I stuck the screwdriver and crescent wrench in my hip pocket walked home at 9 PM and got stopped by a cop. The cop took me to the station and was going to charge me with “possession of burglar tools.” Who is right? Just because my engine is running and NOT engaged does that mean im NOT propelled by machinery? Does that mean when a motor vessel shuts down the engines that makes it NOT a motor vessel? Man up and be a true conservative. I am Democrat and a true conservative. When my motor is running for any reason on my sailboat I consider my self propelled by machinery, act accordingly, and don’t try to chicken **** the rules. BOB I suppose if the cops actually did arrest you, they would have to prove the case. I know a guy who has "guilty" tattooed on the back of his head ear-level, did it when he was young, had hair for a while, now doesn't. That still doesn't prove anything. :-) I agree with you though... I consider my boat to be a powerboat if my engine is on, even though technically I'm not. It's not worth the hassle of trying to prove it in court. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#23
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
m... Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:28:27 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote: As soon as you put the engine in gear, you uniformed crew smartly hoists the day shape cone up the forestay. Carrying all of this to its silly extreme, you now blithely motorsail along with your cone up until some awkward right-of-way situation arises, at which point you strike your cone and put your engine in neutral to reassert your rights. That's why the rules say that you become a powerboat when your engine is on, not just when your engine is in gear. Otherwise you could just shift into neutral whenever it was convenient. Convenient to what? CAUSE a collision? Convient for Wayne's powerboat. :-) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#24
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command,revisited
On Apr 22, 9:04*am, (Richard Casady)
wrote: On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:22:08 -0400, "Roger Long" Big ships all have direct drive engines. If the engine in running the prop is turning. You stop it and restart it turning the other way for reverse. Casady Hello Casady: Well, what can I say. Im going to cosider anything big as 500GRT. What are some the engines Ive seen on these boats. Of course there are the old air start reverse diesels ya might be thinking about. If your going forward and want to go revers then ya got to kill the engine and restate the engine in reverse. makes for interesting manouvering at the dock. Lets try steam as in the SS Ocean Phonenix: boil water and run steam through turbin. Lots of ways to boil water. HOw about EMD...... (Electric Motor Division) There, like the railroad locomotives, the engine runs a generator that then supplies electiricty to an electric motor which then pushes the boat. Just manage the electric motor. NOw there are a couple ways to do this all. 1) Z drives can swivel 360 degress so no need for a marine grear (transmission) 2) varriable pitch props. There ya can just increase/decreas shaft turns and fiddle with pitch contorll. So me thinks there are a lot of options you may not have considered. But thats okay, ship propullsion systems is an interesting subject changing annually. I think ya best stay talking about ur recreational yachts and leave the big stuff to thoese who have actually been on one. bob |
#25
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:58:25 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote: On Apr 22, 9:04*am, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:22:08 -0400, "Roger Long" Big ships all have direct drive engines. If the engine in running the prop is turning. You stop it and restart it turning the other way for reverse. Casady Hello Casady: Well, what can I say. Im going to cosider anything big as 500GRT. They make 500 ton dump trucks. Strip mining equipment. A big size of truck but very small for a ship. Panamax boxboats are big. There is a freighter with a 500 ton crane. Maybe for loading those big trucks. Or locomotives. What are some the engines Ive seen on these boats. Of course there are the old air start reverse diesels ya might be thinking about. If your going forward and want to go revers then ya got to kill the engine and restate the engine in reverse. makes for interesting manouvering at the dock. That's all there is on really large ships. All modern cargo ships with any size to them are single shaft diesel with direct drivel. They haven't built anything else in years. Lets try steam as in the SS Ocean Phonenix: boil water and run steam through turbin. Lots of ways to boil water. They quit building steam ships some time ago. They use quite a bit more fuel than diesel, and steam ships cost significantly more to run. HOw about EMD...... (Electric Motor Division) There, like the railroad locomotives, the engine runs a generator that then supplies electiricty to an electric motor which then pushes the boat. Just manage the electric motor. Less efficient than direct drive. Checked the price of oil lately? NOw there are a couple ways to do this all. 1) Z drives can swivel 360 degress so no need for a marine grear (transmission) 2) varriable pitch props. There ya can just increase/decreas shaft turns and fiddle with pitch contorll. A small proportion of the tonnage out there. Cargo ships don't use them. I have heard of variable pitch props on some US warships, but, except aircraft carriers, warships aren't all that big. Some tugs have odd ball propulsion systems Some cruise ships have diesel electric, and at least one has Z-drives. So me thinks there are a lot of options you may not have considered. But thats okay, ship propullsion systems is an interesting subject changing annually. I think ya best stay talking about ur recreational yachts and leave the big stuff to thoese who have actually been on one. That's seems an overreaction to posting one small fact. Casady |
#26
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
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#27
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command,revisited
On Apr 22, 2:47*pm, otnmbrd wrote:
: There are still a number of ships out there using steam. The problems with direct drive diesels and starting, though not gone, are much more rare. Diesel electric is out there, especially for those using Azipod (different than Z-drive) There are many cargo ships using "variable pitch" My Dear Mr. Casady: I see that you are a mariner and most likely a past Seaman. Steam is not all that obscure. dont forget the the nuc navy is all steam. As far as variable pitched prop....... the fishing industry uses VP on some of the factory trawlers and long liners. Open any National Fisherman and there will be a few ads for VP props. Thank you for varifying the obvious for thoes less knowledgable. Bob |
#28
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
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#29
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:47:50 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote: On Apr 22, 2:47*pm, otnmbrd wrote: : There are still a number of ships out there using steam. The problems with direct drive diesels and starting, though not gone, are much more rare. Diesel electric is out there, especially for those using Azipod (different than Z-drive) There are many cargo ships using "variable pitch" My Dear Mr. Casady: I see that you are a mariner and most likely a past Seaman. Steam is not all that obscure. dont forget the the nuc navy is all steam. As far as variable pitched prop....... the fishing industry uses VP on some of the factory trawlers and long liners. Open any National Fisherman and there will be a few ads for VP props. Thank you for varifying the obvious for thoes less knowledgable. Since my post was about large cargo ships, I didn't mention VP or steam since neither are used much on tankers and the big freighters. There _is_ a steam ship on Lake Michigan. A car ferry, it has coal fired boilers and piston engines, Fifty years old. The SS Badger it is, and they have a website. |
#30
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
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