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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
Marty wrote: JimC wrote: Marty wrote: JimC wrote: keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of stress. Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving such conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to try it. Cheers Marty Marty, in view of the fact that no one, on this board or elsewhere, has posted any accounts of any of the thousands of Mac 26Ms breaking up and sinking under any conditions, as was initially claimed, Whoa, stop! Who claimed that "thousands of Mac26Ms" broke up? Cheers Marty Marty, as I suspect you're sixth-grade teachers probably told you, you need to read and understand the question before you write your answer. - Clearly, I didn't say that "thousands of Mac26m's broke up." Instead, I said that even though there are thousands of Mac 26s out there being sailed in US and foreign waters, "no one, on this board or elsewhere, has posted ANY accounts of ANY of the thousands of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY conditions..." Read your own post Marty. Jim Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you. Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,, Get back to us on that one. Cheers marty |
#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
"Marty" wrote in message
... Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you. Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,, Get back to us on that one. Cheers marty We need 10 to 15 examples please.... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
Capt. JG wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message ... Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you. Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,, Get back to us on that one. Cheers marty We need 10 to 15 examples please.... Jon, this got me to thinking, I haven't heard of single person coming to grief crossing the North Atlantic in January on a SeaDoo, therefore SeaDoos are the ideal vehicle for this purpose! Cheers Marty |
#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
"Marty" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "Marty" wrote in message ... Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you. Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,, Get back to us on that one. Cheers marty We need 10 to 15 examples please.... Jon, this got me to thinking, I haven't heard of single person coming to grief crossing the North Atlantic in January on a SeaDoo, therefore SeaDoos are the ideal vehicle for this purpose! Cheers Marty And you can go really fast in SeaDoo... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
Marty wrote: JimC wrote: Marty wrote: JimC wrote: Marty wrote: JimC wrote: keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of stress. Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving such conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to try it. Cheers Marty Marty, in view of the fact that no one, on this board or elsewhere, has posted any accounts of any of the thousands of Mac 26Ms breaking up and sinking under any conditions, as was initially claimed, Whoa, stop! Who claimed that "thousands of Mac26Ms" broke up? Cheers Marty Marty, as I suspect you're sixth-grade teachers probably told you, you need to read and understand the question before you write your answer. - Clearly, I didn't say that "thousands of Mac26m's broke up." Instead, I said that even though there are thousands of Mac 26s out there being sailed in US and foreign waters, "no one, on this board or elsewhere, has posted ANY accounts of ANY of the thousands of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY conditions..." Read your own post Marty. Jim Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you. Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,, Get back to us on that one. Cheers marty If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for such evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted anyting of the kind. Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion. - Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back. Jim |
#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for such evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted anyting of the kind. Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion. - Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back. Jim, you most certainly made such a statement, when you returned I couldn't resist. I am pleased to see you have no intention of trying to support such folly. Cheers Marty |
#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
Marty wrote: JimC wrote: If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for such evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted anyting of the kind. Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion. - Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back. Jim, you most certainly made such a statement, when you returned I couldn't resist. I am pleased to see you have no intention of trying to support such folly. Cheers Marty Marty, like Jeff and Ganz, you seem to love posting responses or challenges to what you THINK I said, or what you would LIKED for me to have said, or what your caracature of Mac owners WOULD have said, rather than what I did say. As previously noted, I have not stated that the Mac is suitable for extensive blue water sailing or extended crossings. In fact, I said just the opposite, that it isn't a blue water boat suited for extended crossings. Note also that I didn't say that they are routinely sailed offshore in difficult conditions. - I merely stated that if Joe had been on a Mac26, with its positive floatation, I thought his boat would have stayed afloat, permitting him to recover it rather than having it sink to the floor of the Gulf of Mexico. Please note that it wasn't me who initiated the assertions that the Mac would break up and sink (or roll over and over like a washing machine) in heavy weather conditions. - It was Ganz, and a few of his Mac-baching buddies. MY ASSERTION WAS THAT NEITHER GANZ, OR ANY OF HIS MAC-BASHING BUDDIES, HAVE PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE MAC WOULD BREAK UP AND SINK IN HEAVY WEATHER CONDITIONS. I stand by and will continue to support THAT assertion. However, don't put words in my mouth and ask me to support assertions you wish I had made, or thought I had made, but didn't. Have a nice day Marty. Jim |
#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
Marty wrote: JimC wrote: If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for such evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted anyting of the kind. Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion. - Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back. Jim, you most certainly made such a statement, when you returned I couldn't resist. I am pleased to see you have no intention of trying to support such folly. Cheers Marty Marty, like Jeff and Ganz, you seem to love posting responses or challenges to what you THINK I said, or what you would LIKED for me to have said, or what your caracature of Mac owners WOULD have said, rather than what I did say. As previously noted, I have not stated that the Mac is suitable for extensive blue water sailing or extended crossings. In fact, I said just the opposite, that it isn't a blue water boat suited for extended crossings. Good Lord folks, this still going on? As for it being any type of "blue-water cruiser", here's what Roger MacGregor says about it in a Practical Sailor interview (http://www.practical-sailor.com/samp...t_Review.html: As for its seaworthiness, Roger MacGregor said, “The 26 was designed for typical small cruising boat use—inland waters and limited coastal sailing. It is too small to be a long-distance passagemaker. It won’t hold enough gear and supplies, and the long-term, day-after-day motion of a small, light sailboat can be tough on the crew. “There are thousands of these boats out there, and many have been caught in, and survived, some really extreme weather conditions, on both lakes and oceans. Like most small cruising sailboats, the 26 can handle high winds and nasty seas, but risk and discomfort levels increase dramatically in severe weather. To maximize fun and safety, most of our owners wisely keep a watchful eye on the weather and try to avoid severe conditions.” So...once again, the *designer* clearly states that it's built for light duty. What's the mystery? Note also that I didn't say that they are routinely sailed offshore in difficult conditions. - I merely stated that if Joe had been on a Mac26, with its positive floatation, I thought his boat would have stayed afloat, permitting him to recover it rather than having it sink to the floor of the Gulf of Mexico. With 10K pounds of coffee in it? Please note that it wasn't me who initiated the assertions that the Mac would break up and sink (or roll over and over like a washing machine) in heavy weather conditions. - It was Ganz, and a few of his Mac-baching buddies. MY ASSERTION WAS THAT NEITHER GANZ, OR ANY OF HIS MAC-BASHING BUDDIES, HAVE PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE MAC WOULD BREAK UP AND SINK IN HEAVY WEATHER CONDITIONS. I'm not bashing Macs. They're fine for what they are designed for, i.e. "inland waters and limited coastal sailing". So are they designed for heavy seas and gale force winds - NO. "Might" they survive? Sure, but one can always assume that there is a high likelihood that a boat will fail, often catastrophically, when used *well* outside of its designed operating range. A simple matter of engineering, not speculation. Keith Hughes |
#10
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
wrote: I'm not bashing Macs. They're fine for what they are designed for, i.e. "inland waters and limited coastal sailing". So are they designed for heavy seas and gale force winds - NO. "Might" they survive? Sure, but one can always assume that there is a high likelihood that a boat will fail, often catastrophically, when used *well* outside of its designed operating range. A simple matter of engineering, not speculation. Keith Hughes As I said, they are not suited for extended crossings or blue water cruising. While they are a coastal cruiser, they are not comfortable in heavy weather. As to carrying 10K pounds of coffee, that would have to be cut back somewhat. As also discussed previously, the Macs aren't large enough to store provisions for extended cruising. Jim "Somewhat"? Capacity of 960lbs, including crew, would require a reduction of, oh, say 95%. Ok, then your entire point is rendered moot, true? If Redcloud had been a Mac, it couldn't have been carrying the payload, so it wouldn't have been in the situation in the first place. So it's a pointless argument to say "If Joe were in a Mac...", the Mac is wholly unsuited to what he was trying to due, irrespective of the weather component. BTW, from the Macgregor site, we also have: "IF THE CABIN OF THE BOAT IS ENTIRELY FILLED WITH WATER, AND THE BOAT IS DEPENDENT ON THE FOAM FLOTATION TO KEEP IT AFLOAT, IT WILL BE VERY UNSTABLE, AND MAY TURN UPSIDE DOWN." It's quite evident from this statement that when flooded, in heavy seas, the Mac can be expected to turn turtle, or roll. So why the desperate need to defend the Mac as something it's not? It's a trailerable boat (big compromise #1), at a low price point (big compromise #2), with a targeted audience and type of use. It does what it's designed to do, and works great for a lot of people for whom the design compromises are unimportant, or considered acceptable. It's also wholly unsuitable to uses for which it is not designed, as are most boats. Many folks have sailed Catalina 30's on blue water passages, but I wouldn't do that in mine. It's designed, built, and rigged to be a coastal cruiser, and just like the Mac, operated outside of its design parameters, is *much* more prone to catastrophic failure. Plain and simple - you operate within the confines of the engineering design space, or you're at risk. Keith Hughes |
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