Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:



Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:

keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on
the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and
sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of
stress.



Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving
such conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to
try it.

Cheers
Marty


Marty, in view of the fact that no one, on this board or elsewhere,
has posted any accounts of any of the thousands of Mac 26Ms breaking
up and sinking under any conditions, as was initially claimed,



Whoa, stop! Who claimed that "thousands of Mac26Ms" broke up?

Cheers
Marty

Marty, as I suspect you're sixth-grade teachers probably told you, you
need to read and understand the question before you write your answer. -

Clearly, I didn't say that "thousands of Mac26m's broke up." Instead, I
said that even though there are thousands of Mac 26s out there being
sailed in US and foreign waters,

"no one, on this board or elsewhere, has posted ANY accounts of ANY of
the thousands of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY conditions..."

Read your own post Marty.

Jim

JimC wrote:


Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:



Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:

keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on
the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and
sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of
stress.



Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving
such conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to
try it.

Cheers
Marty


Marty, in view of the fact that no one, on this board or elsewhere,
has posted any accounts of any of the thousands of Mac 26Ms breaking
up and sinking under any conditions, as was initially claimed,



Whoa, stop! Who claimed that "thousands of Mac26Ms" broke up?

Cheers
Marty

Marty, as I suspect you're sixth-grade teachers probably told you, you
need to read and understand the question before you write your answer. -

Clearly, I didn't say that "thousands of Mac26m's broke up." Instead, I
said that even though there are thousands of Mac 26s out there being
sailed in US and foreign waters,

"no one, on this board or elsewhere, has posted ANY accounts of ANY of
the thousands of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY conditions..."

Read your own post Marty.

Jim



Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing
ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you.


Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,,

Get back to us on that one.

Cheers
marty

"Marty" wrote in message
...

Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing
ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you.


Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,,

Get back to us on that one.

Cheers
marty


We need 10 to 15 examples please....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...

Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing
ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you.


Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,,

Get back to us on that one.

Cheers
marty


We need 10 to 15 examples please....



Jon, this got me to thinking, I haven't heard of single person coming to
grief crossing the North Atlantic in January on a SeaDoo, therefore
SeaDoos are the ideal vehicle for this purpose!

Cheers
Marty

"Marty" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...

Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing
ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you.


Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,,

Get back to us on that one.

Cheers
marty


We need 10 to 15 examples please....



Jon, this got me to thinking, I haven't heard of single person coming to
grief crossing the North Atlantic in January on a SeaDoo, therefore
SeaDoos are the ideal vehicle for this purpose!

Cheers
Marty


And you can go really fast in SeaDoo...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:



Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:



Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:

keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or
on the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and
sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms
of stress.




Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving
such conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to
try it.

Cheers
Marty



Marty, in view of the fact that no one, on this board or elsewhere,
has posted any accounts of any of the thousands of Mac 26Ms breaking
up and sinking under any conditions, as was initially claimed,




Whoa, stop! Who claimed that "thousands of Mac26Ms" broke up?

Cheers
Marty


Marty, as I suspect you're sixth-grade teachers probably told you, you
need to read and understand the question before you write your answer. -

Clearly, I didn't say that "thousands of Mac26m's broke up." Instead,
I said that even though there are thousands of Mac 26s out there being
sailed in US and foreign waters,

"no one, on this board or elsewhere, has posted ANY accounts of ANY of
the thousands of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY
conditions..."

Read your own post Marty.

Jim



Give it a rest Jim, when you can provide evidence of Mac26s completing
ocean voyages in heavy weather we'll believe you.


Hmmm ...... still looking I see,,,,

Get back to us on that one.

Cheers
marty

If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for such
evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted anyting of
the kind.

Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion. -
Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back.

Jim

JimC wrote:

If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for such
evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted anyting of
the kind.

Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion. -
Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back.

Jim, you most certainly made such a statement, when you returned I
couldn't resist.

I am pleased to see you have no intention of trying to support such folly.

Cheers
Marty

Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:


If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for such
evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted anyting of
the kind.

Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion. -
Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back.


Jim, you most certainly made such a statement, when you returned I
couldn't resist.

I am pleased to see you have no intention of trying to support such folly.

Cheers
Marty



Marty, like Jeff and Ganz, you seem to love posting responses or
challenges to what you THINK I said, or what you would LIKED for me to
have said, or what your caracature of Mac owners WOULD have said, rather
than what I did say. As previously noted, I have not stated that the Mac
is suitable for extensive blue water sailing or extended crossings. In
fact, I said just the opposite, that it isn't a blue water boat suited
for extended crossings.

Note also that I didn't say that they are routinely sailed offshore in
difficult conditions. - I merely stated that if Joe had been on a
Mac26, with its positive floatation, I thought his boat would have
stayed afloat, permitting him to recover it rather than having it sink
to the floor of the Gulf of Mexico.

Please note that it wasn't me who initiated the assertions that the Mac
would break up and sink (or roll over and over like a washing machine)
in heavy weather conditions. - It was Ganz, and a few of his
Mac-baching buddies.

MY ASSERTION WAS THAT NEITHER GANZ, OR ANY OF HIS MAC-BASHING BUDDIES,
HAVE PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE MAC WOULD BREAK UP AND SINK IN HEAVY
WEATHER CONDITIONS.

I stand by and will continue to support THAT assertion. However, don't
put words in my mouth and ask me to support assertions you wish I had
made, or thought I had made, but didn't.

Have a nice day Marty.

Jim

JimC wrote:


Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:


If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for
such evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted
anyting of the kind.

Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion. -
Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back.


Jim, you most certainly made such a statement, when you returned I
couldn't resist.

I am pleased to see you have no intention of trying to support such
folly.

Cheers
Marty



Marty, like Jeff and Ganz, you seem to love posting responses or
challenges to what you THINK I said, or what you would LIKED for me to
have said, or what your caracature of Mac owners WOULD have said, rather
than what I did say. As previously noted, I have not stated that the Mac
is suitable for extensive blue water sailing or extended crossings. In
fact, I said just the opposite, that it isn't a blue water boat suited
for extended crossings.

Good Lord folks, this still going on?

As for it being any type of "blue-water cruiser", here's what Roger
MacGregor says about it in a Practical Sailor interview
(http://www.practical-sailor.com/samp...t_Review.html:

As for its seaworthiness, Roger MacGregor said, “The 26 was designed for
typical small cruising boat use—inland waters and limited coastal
sailing. It is too small to be a long-distance passagemaker. It won’t
hold enough gear and supplies, and the long-term, day-after-day motion
of a small, light sailboat can be tough on the crew.

“There are thousands of these boats out there, and many have been caught
in, and survived, some really extreme weather conditions, on both lakes
and oceans. Like most small cruising sailboats, the 26 can handle high
winds and nasty seas, but risk and discomfort levels increase
dramatically in severe weather. To maximize fun and safety, most of our
owners wisely keep a watchful eye on the weather and try to avoid severe
conditions.”

So...once again, the *designer* clearly states that it's built for light
duty. What's the mystery?


Note also that I didn't say that they are routinely sailed offshore in
difficult conditions. - I merely stated that if Joe had been on a Mac26,
with its positive floatation, I thought his boat would have stayed
afloat, permitting him to recover it rather than having it sink to the
floor of the Gulf of Mexico.

With 10K pounds of coffee in it?

Please note that it wasn't me who initiated the assertions that the Mac
would break up and sink (or roll over and over like a washing machine)
in heavy weather conditions. - It was Ganz, and a few of his
Mac-baching buddies.

MY ASSERTION WAS THAT NEITHER GANZ, OR ANY OF HIS MAC-BASHING BUDDIES,
HAVE PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE MAC WOULD BREAK UP AND SINK IN HEAVY
WEATHER CONDITIONS.

I'm not bashing Macs. They're fine for what they are designed for, i.e.
"inland waters and limited coastal sailing". So are they designed for
heavy seas and gale force winds - NO. "Might" they survive? Sure, but
one can always assume that there is a high likelihood that a boat will
fail, often catastrophically, when used *well* outside of its designed
operating range. A simple matter of engineering, not speculation.

Keith Hughes

wrote:

JimC wrote:



Marty wrote:

JimC wrote:


If I had made such a statement, I might think about searching for
such evidence. But as I have noted several times, I never posted
anyting of the kind.

Incidentally, I thought you had decided to abandon this discussion.
- Was I wrong? In any event, I'm glad to see you back.



Jim, you most certainly made such a statement, when you returned I
couldn't resist.

I am pleased to see you have no intention of trying to support such
folly.

Cheers
Marty




Marty, like Jeff and Ganz, you seem to love posting responses or
challenges to what you THINK I said, or what you would LIKED for me to
have said, or what your caracature of Mac owners WOULD have said,
rather than what I did say. As previously noted, I have not stated
that the Mac is suitable for extensive blue water sailing or extended
crossings. In fact, I said just the opposite, that it isn't a blue
water boat suited for extended crossings.


Good Lord folks, this still going on?

As for it being any type of "blue-water cruiser", here's what Roger
MacGregor says about it in a Practical Sailor interview
(http://www.practical-sailor.com/samp...t_Review.html:

As for its seaworthiness, Roger MacGregor said, “The 26 was designed for
typical small cruising boat use—inland waters and limited coastal
sailing. It is too small to be a long-distance passagemaker. It won’t
hold enough gear and supplies, and the long-term, day-after-day motion
of a small, light sailboat can be tough on the crew.

“There are thousands of these boats out there, and many have been caught
in, and survived, some really extreme weather conditions, on both lakes
and oceans. Like most small cruising sailboats, the 26 can handle high
winds and nasty seas, but risk and discomfort levels increase
dramatically in severe weather. To maximize fun and safety, most of our
owners wisely keep a watchful eye on the weather and try to avoid severe
conditions.”

So...once again, the *designer* clearly states that it's built for light
duty. What's the mystery?


Note also that I didn't say that they are routinely sailed offshore
in difficult conditions. - I merely stated that if Joe had been on a
Mac26, with its positive floatation, I thought his boat would have
stayed afloat, permitting him to recover it rather than having it sink
to the floor of the Gulf of Mexico.


With 10K pounds of coffee in it?


Please note that it wasn't me who initiated the assertions that the
Mac would break up and sink (or roll over and over like a washing
machine) in heavy weather conditions. - It was Ganz, and a few of his
Mac-baching buddies.

MY ASSERTION WAS THAT NEITHER GANZ, OR ANY OF HIS MAC-BASHING BUDDIES,
HAVE PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE MAC WOULD BREAK UP AND SINK IN
HEAVY WEATHER CONDITIONS.


I'm not bashing Macs. They're fine for what they are designed for, i.e.
"inland waters and limited coastal sailing". So are they designed for
heavy seas and gale force winds - NO. "Might" they survive? Sure, but
one can always assume that there is a high likelihood that a boat will
fail, often catastrophically, when used *well* outside of its designed
operating range. A simple matter of engineering, not speculation.

Keith Hughes


As I said, they are not suited for extended crossings or blue water
cruising. While they are a coastal cruiser, they are not comfortable in
heavy weather. As to carrying 10K pounds of coffee, that would have to
be cut back somewhat. As also discussed previously, the Macs aren't
large enough to store provisions for extended cruising.

Jim