On Feb 22, 12:52 pm, Geoff Schultz wrote:
... I was speaking of the shape of the hull. With a single hull you have to
deal with the floor being in the V shape of the hull. With a double hull
the flooring is flat, which is much nicer to get in and out of. ...

Quite. There are a couple of advantages to having a deck. It can be
flat, it keeps things dry and it makes the boat stiffer. Weight and
restricted access are the only downsides I can think of. However, at
least on my single skin boat, the deadrise angle is so shallow aft
that it is not at all unpleasant to sit or stand on and the addition
of the tiles makes it reasonably dry. Dingies are just boats. They
are exercises in compromise and there is no universal best.

-- Tom.

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Anyone that has to set a second anchor in rough seas is not paying
attention. Given the availability of radio weather reports in this day
and age anyone who doesn't know what the weather is doing isn't
listening. The time to set a second anchor is before the wind gets up.

Agreed, but there are more reasons than ignorance of the weather to
set an anchor vie dinghy.

"Armond Perretta" wrote:
I guess I am going to have to study up. I have had one or more (probably
more) instances of having to take out gear in the dink for security or
weather reasons. Maybe I have just been in places where the weather
reports, such as they were, weren't too reliable.


I've used a dinghy to set an anchor in a place that the big boat
couldn't have gotten to... and it worked out wonderfully, holding the
big boat closer in to a place that was secure. I've also used a dinghy
to set a security anchor to hold us off a dock. Then there is setting
a kedge to pull off from a grounding, although most people probably
think it's easier to just call Sea Tow.


I have both hard and soft little boats, but in the cases I recall where
anchor and chain had to be set from the boat, the hard boat with oars was
the one actually used. I probably would have been a little intimidated
about having to toss a patent-style anchor into a rubber boat in the dark,
or with a sea making up. No such fears about the hard boat, and in fact the
rig performed quite well.


I have never liked outboard motors, a RIB was out of the question. We
have a dinghy that I designed & built, and consider it as close to
perfect for our uses as could be: it is very easy to row, stable, and
looks like a classic lapstrake pulling boat.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On 2008-02-21 23:55:55 -0500, Wayne.B said:

We've had good experiences with both a 12 ft Avon roll up with
aluminum floor and inflatable keel, and also an 11 ft Caribe RIB. We
have used a 15 hp Merc in the past but presently have a 20 hp Honda.
They will plane off at 15+ kts with 3 people on board but struggle with
4. They both require a hoist and a fair amount of deck space for
storage.

On the other hand, our 12.5' PortaBote delivers 10+ knots with 300+
pounds of people onboard with 4 HP, and planed at about the same speed
with 5 adults powered by a 7.5 Honda high-thrust sailboat kicker.

I'd be afraid to throw 15 hp into our PortaBote with any number aboard,
as the likely speeds would be truly beyond my comfort level. 20 hp? No
chance I'd open the throttle to full.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 22 Feb 2008 16:53:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:40:24 -0500, Wayne.B
said:

There is a reason why Navy SEALS use RIBs and not FoldBotes.

Ergo, if your needs are the same as those of a Navy SEAL, buy a RIB. Why do
I not find that too persuasive?

So get something else.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:49:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Anyone that has to set a second anchor in rough seas is not paying
attention. Given the availability of radio weather reports in this day
and age anyone who doesn't know what the weather is doing isn't
listening. The time to set a second anchor is before the wind gets up.

Agreed, but there are more reasons than ignorance of the weather to
set an anchor vie dinghy.

True. I don't usually park in places where there isn't room to swing
so I don't bother with a second anchor but I can see that it might be
necessary from time to time, but he seemed to be talking about rowing
out a second anchor in the teeth of a roaring gale.

"Armond Perretta" wrote:
I guess I am going to have to study up. I have had one or more (probably
more) instances of having to take out gear in the dink for security or
weather reasons. Maybe I have just been in places where the weather
reports, such as they were, weren't too reliable.

I've used a dinghy to set an anchor in a place that the big boat
couldn't have gotten to... and it worked out wonderfully, holding the
big boat closer in to a place that was secure. I've also used a dinghy
to set a security anchor to hold us off a dock. Then there is setting
a kedge to pull off from a grounding, although most people probably
think it's easier to just call Sea Tow.

True, I did run a line ashore when I was parked near a coral outcrop
but it really wasn't a "got to do it" situation. I was bound I was
going to anchor between another boat and a coral 'ledge" and didn't
want to swing.

I have both hard and soft little boats, but in the cases I recall where
anchor and chain had to be set from the boat, the hard boat with oars was
the one actually used. I probably would have been a little intimidated
about having to toss a patent-style anchor into a rubber boat in the dark,
or with a sea making up. No such fears about the hard boat, and in fact the
rig performed quite well.

One of my money earning hobbies is building dinghies. I designed and
built several 8 ft glass over plywood boats that will carry three
adults (well, skinny ones) quite safely in any weather I want to be
out in a dinghy. They aren't as light as a rubber duck but they are
light enough that I can pick one up by my self. Local made rubber
dinghies are running a bit over $1,000 here and I can build glass over
plywood boat for about a third of that.

I have never liked outboard motors, a RIB was out of the question. We
have a dinghy that I designed & built, and consider it as close to
perfect for our uses as could be: it is very easy to row, stable, and
looks like a classic lapstrake pulling boat.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


One of my money earning hobbies is building dinghies. I designed and
built several 8 ft glass over plywood boats that will carry three
adults (well, skinny ones) quite safely in any weather I want to be
out in a dinghy. They aren't as light as a rubber duck but they are
light enough that I can pick one up by my self. Local made rubber
dinghies are running a bit over $1,000 here and I can build glass over
plywood boat for about a third of that.


Now that would be interesting.
Do you have any more info on them you can share?

I would't mind building my own.
(I suspect postage on something like that would be a bit over the top.)

But we would have to work out a way to swing it aboard first.

I have never liked outboard motors, a RIB was out of the question. We
have a dinghy that I designed & built, and consider it as close to
perfect for our uses as could be: it is very easy to row, stable, and
looks like a classic lapstrake pulling boat.


No one has mentioned it yet, but an outboard means storing gasoline on
board.

The big boat has a diesel engine and diesel generator.

Besides the flammability issue, there is the simple problem of logistics
of having a second kind of fuel to stow.

A good rowing boat - maybe with a simple sail for the longer pulls?

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:40:24 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:31:54 -0400, wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:09:16 -0600, cavalamb himself
wrote:


I'm a bit surprised about the RIBs as I didn't suspect they would
be that popular. Something to think about.

One of the nice things about RIBs is the ability to beach them without
tearing up the bottom. That's important when you are cruising in the
boondocks and want to go ashore.


I have a wooden dinghy and I am just about to order a RIB.
What is your take on a single hull vs. the double hulled RIB
Hypalon is a better material but this new German made PVC looks promising,
what do you think.


Hypalon is the gold standard for durability, wouldn't have anything
else, and I agree with Geoff on the double hull.

To those who say don't get a RIB, be aware of what you are not
getting: Seaworthiness, load carrying ability, redundant flotation,
drier ride (by comparison) and speed - not necessarily in that order.

There is a reason why Navy SEALS use RIBs and not FoldBotes.


Umm... Having owned both, I can say that the Porta-Bote is every bit as
seaworthy, has more useful room for a given size boat, has a drier ride, can be
rowed easily in a straight line, sailed or motored while full of water without
capsizing, and planes with a very small lightweight motor. Mine eagerly jumps up
on top of the water with a 3.5 HP motor that weighs 29 pounds. I never have to
tow it, because I can hand launch and retrieve it without a hoist, and it folds
up flat in a few minutes to be lashed to the lifelines.

It costs half what a blow up boat costs, and of course the motor costs a
fraction of what is required for a RIB to perform as well. I don't need a patch
kit, either.



Interesting boat (bote?)
http://www.porta-bote.com/dinghy.html

It for sure takes up less deck space.

On Feb 23, 4:33 am, wrote:
... Umm... Having owned both, I can say that the Porta-Bote is every bit as
seaworthy, has more useful room for a given size boat, has a drier ride, can be
rowed easily in a straight line, sailed or motored while full of water without
capsizing, and planes with a very small lightweight motor. Mine eagerly jumps up
on top of the water with a 3.5 HP motor that weighs 29 pounds. I never have to
tow it, because I can hand launch and retrieve it without a hoist, and it folds
up flat in a few minutes to be lashed to the lifelines.

It costs half what a blow up boat costs, and of course the motor costs a
fraction of what is required for a RIB to perform as well. I don't need a patch
kit, either.

You certainly make them sound nice. What are their disadvantages?
How do they work as a dive boats? Can you run them ashore in the
surf? Can you self-recuse one that's full of water?

-- Tom.

cavelamb himself wrote:
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


One of my money earning hobbies is building dinghies. I designed and
built several 8 ft glass over plywood boats that will carry three
adults (well, skinny ones) quite safely in any weather I want to be
out in a dinghy. They aren't as light as a rubber duck but they are
light enough that I can pick one up by my self. Local made rubber
dinghies are running a bit over $1,000 here and I can build glass over
plywood boat for about a third of that.


Now that would be interesting.
Do you have any more info on them you can share?

I would't mind building my own.
(I suspect postage on something like that would be a bit over the top.)

But we would have to work out a way to swing it aboard first.

I have never liked outboard motors, a RIB was out of the question. We
have a dinghy that I designed & built, and consider it as close to
perfect for our uses as could be: it is very easy to row, stable, and
looks like a classic lapstrake pulling boat.


No one has mentioned it yet, but an outboard means storing gasoline on
board.

The big boat has a diesel engine and diesel generator.

Besides the flammability issue, there is the simple problem of logistics
of having a second kind of fuel to stow.

A good rowing boat - maybe with a simple sail for the longer pulls?




http://www.microcruising.com/ding1.htm
http://www.simplicityboats.com/summerbreezetemp.html
http://www.pelinplans.co.nz/canoes_dinghies_plans.htm

And the one I like
http://www.riparia.org/rachel.html
G

On Feb 23, 2:34 pm, wrote:


Oh, yeah. The included, aluminum collapsible oars are fine for emergencies, but
if you are going to mostly row, rather than use a motor, you'll want to get a
set of real, full length oars and oarlocks. The oarlock sockets need a minor
modification to accept real oarlocks. I bring the collapsible oars only as
backup when using the motor.

I doubt anything could convince me to go back to an inflatable.

I strongly second the general wimpieess of the supplied oars. I
modified my Bote to accept standard feathering rowlocks, and kept one
of the sets of oars I used to use with my rowing shells.

I had to move the collars all the way to the inside to make it fit
with (still) more overlap than standard, and the sides are floppy, so
it takes a fine hand to make sure the pull is straight (don't push or
pull the collar, essentially, on the stroke).

I've never really tried, but I believe that if I were to work at it, I
could plane it :{)) I sorely miss the sliding seat part of my rowing
but that would complicate matters and storage severely. Someone more
serious than I could surely make that happen, though, as the Alden
shells are little more than canoes with clips into which you mount the
sliding seat and rigger package. There are several manufacturers of
drop-in sliding-seat rowing gear, but each setup likely would increase
the cost of the bote by a good half or more; the oars are another
significant portion if you don't already own them (I did - new,
they're $400 the pair).

From a standing start, on flat ground, I can take it out of a van,
assemble it, and be rowing, and in reverse, land, disassemble and stow
it in the van in 5 minutes each way including mounting the rowlock
assembly. Pix of the modification are in the gallery, if you would
like to see it, at:http://www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery/index.php?
mode=album&album=Morgan+461+Hull+Number+2+Refit+%2 B+Projects
%2FFinishing_Touches-Readying_To_Splash%2FPorta-
Bote_Maiden_Voyage_and_Sculling_Modifications, or http://tinyurl.com/2we3rp

There are pix of the sculling oars and of the standard oars in use as
well as my modifications...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
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