On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:33:44 -0500, Red said:
My first semester buisness professor taught us that analogy as the
erroneous argument that it is. Military organizations do not produce a
product to sell. They are not in business to make a profit. They only
spend money, because they are a 100-percent total-loss system. So your
argument using this analogy is flawed.

And Dave responded thusly:
Glad to hear that the cost of those soldiers, ships and planes is
nothing,
Red. Now can I get a check back from the gummint for all that money I
sent
them to pay for them?

I'm a bit confused by your response Dave. I was referring to your use of
an analogy to compare what is two completely different things. Your
response makes no sense. Business is in business to make a profit,
offset by expenses. Government does not make profit, it isn't designed
to make profit, and no idiot we have elected wants it to make a profit.
Comparing business to military expenditures is a falacious argument.
Red

J Ganz wrote:
I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the
unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid.

This is of course so innacurate as to be ludicrous. There are some
places in the U.S. where the teachers are paid lower than in other
places and that is mostly in rural areas. Around here the average salery
is over $100,000 for tenured teachers, not to mention the quite
lucrative benefits package and three months off in summer along with
several paid vacations during the year. In studies of the nation's
profession's saleries, teachers ranked up near the top as a nationwide
average. Are some underpaid? Sure. But most are not.
Red

On 2008-01-07 01:01:32 -0500, Bob said:

I finaly got a fulltime job teaching 2nd grade.My first day was August 2001.

My take home after taxes, healthcare ( i paid $500/mo for a ****ty
family of 3 plan , retirement (they paid 1/2), union dues $25
was...............

$1745/mo take home

And I started at $9 an hour --gross, with no benefits-- as a
programmer, admittedly a few years earlier. In any new career, you
often start at the bottom and pay your dues....

Main problem I see at the level you're talking about is that there has
historically been a glut of teachers who are willing to start work for
those low wages. Of late, there have been fewer so the legislatures
loosened the requirements to keep the labor force cheap.

Oh, and my current wife taught for 20+ years at the university level
before moving down. We eventually decided that the price of re-entry
here just wasn't worth it, as the most she could make as an adjunct was
20k.

Teachers have to beg a repubican for money. Nurses dont. they just go
to a better paying hospital. teachers cant do that when the republicans
have created a state wide controlled industry.

Must be different out there, as teachers regularly transfer to make
more around here. The state has very little control over individual
districts unless the legislature passes a bill specific to a district,
and then it's time-limited.

Those willing and able to put up with the first years have a pretty sweet deal.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

If you want to throw barbs at one another, please resort to e-mail so that
the rest of us don't have to watch your childish behavior.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:25:20 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:
Snippo
Vote for Huckabee or Obama.

This has **** all to do with boats or cruising. Kindly send it
someplace else.

Casady


Dave wants change.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Red" wrote in message
...
J Ganz wrote:
I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the
unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid.

This is of course so innacurate as to be ludicrous. There are some places
in the U.S. where the teachers are paid lower than in other places and
that is mostly in rural areas. Around here the average salery is over
$100,000 for tenured teachers, not to mention the quite lucrative benefits
package and three months off in summer along with several paid vacations
during the year. In studies of the nation's profession's saleries,
teachers ranked up near the top as a nationwide average. Are some
underpaid? Sure. But most are not.
Red


Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005. Maybe
you're thinking of college level? Certainly K-12 are not paid $100K, at
least not many.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Red" wrote in message
...
J Ganz wrote:
I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the
unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid.
This is of course so innacurate as to be ludicrous. There are some places
in the U.S. where the teachers are paid lower than in other places and
that is mostly in rural areas. Around here the average salery is over
$100,000 for tenured teachers, not to mention the quite lucrative benefits
package and three months off in summer along with several paid vacations
during the year. In studies of the nation's profession's saleries,
teachers ranked up near the top as a nationwide average. Are some
underpaid? Sure. But most are not.
Red


Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005. Maybe
you're thinking of college level? Certainly K-12 are not paid $100K, at
least not many.

Not sure what a "salery" is, but for teacher salaries, a quick check on
payscale.com shows the median salary for entry level teachers is $33.5K,
while the median for 20+years experience is $56.8K. A *far* cry from 6
figures! A masters+ and 20+ years experience making $56K doesn't sound
anywhere near "near the top" to me.

Keith

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:34:33 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005.

And what is the average salary in the U.S. for all college graduates, Jon?


No idea. Are you a college grad?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:19:14 -0500, Red said:
I'm a bit confused by your response Dave.
Along with a response that Dave has no rational answer for, and so he
cut it out to make the following pseudo response...

You got that right.

Well Dave at least we can all see you really don't have a clue about
what you were arguing about.

Red

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:15:29 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005.

And what is the average salary in the U.S. for all college graduates,
Jon?


No idea.

You could look it up. Might be highly relevant to whether a particular
group
of college graduates is underpaid.

Here's a hint: it's less than $47,602.


Your group! Sorry!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com