In article
,
wrote:

On Jan 2, 3:05 pm, Larry wrote:

Sad, indeed. He must have had HF/SSB aboard to call the hams, maybe on
14.300 Mhz. I wonder what he was doing out there without a 406 Mhz EPIRB?
The story or video made no mention of an EPIRB alarm.


Red Cloud did carry a 406 EPIRB that was activated

If it was one without GPS it may take max 2 hours to locate it (via
SARSAT, since GEOSAR does not help locatin) - so maybe this was the
reason for additionally calling via ham, and that this ermergency call
arrived first.

In an emergency one has to use whatever is avaiable, no regulation
should forbid that.

Marc

--
remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail
http://www.heusser.com

Marc Heusser d wrote in
:

If it was one without GPS it may take max 2 hours to locate it

Precisely the reason those units need to be taken off the market.....

Larry
--
Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling,
ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters.
Jan 1st 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
Rhodium $452 $1341 $3006 $5339 $6775 PER OUNCE!
How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate?
Feb '97 it was $182/oz

On Jan 5, 10:56 pm, Marc Heusser
d wrote:
In article
,

wrote:

Red Cloud did carry a 406 EPIRB that was activated

If it was one without GPS it may take max 2 hours to locate it (via
SARSAT, since GEOSAR does not help locatin) - so maybe this was the
reason for additionally calling via ham, and that this ermergency call
arrived first.

In an emergency one has to use whatever is avaiable, no regulation
should forbid that.

Marc

--
remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail
http://www.heusser.com

The model EPIRB Red Cloud carried did have integral GPS

www.rescuebeacon.biz

On Jan 2, 2:05*pm, Larry wrote:
jeff wrote in news:G4ydnf64SN-
:

Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA:

http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...grescue.c061dc....

A sad day - at least they are all safe.

Sad, indeed. *He must have had HF/SSB aboard to call the hams, maybe on14.300Mhz. *I wonder what he was doing out there without a 406 Mhz EPIRB? *
The story or video made no mention of an EPIRB alarm.

Indeed, after calling for hours on 2182 with zero responce, I got
Rooney on 14.300. We listen daily to the cruisng net for weather
updates ect..ect.. Later called a passing ship and my friend meet me
on another channel to have a pow wow with noaa and USCG SAR. They
requested I activate the EPIRB when we decided it was time to go. I
had a 406 that also broadcasted at 121 at the same time.

Skipper says thanks

Joe





Sounded like the mainmast must have busted loose and was tearing the cabin
roof apart.

Glad they're all safe....including the dog.

Larry
--
Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling,
ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters.
Jan 1st * 2004 * 2005 * 2006 * 2007 * 2008
Rhodium *$452 * $1341 *$3006 *$5339 *$6775 PER OUNCE!
How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate?
Feb '97 it was $182/oz

Joe wrote in news:d3b3ff64-b3f2-4c45-85fb-
:

Indeed, after calling for hours on 2182 with zero responce, I got
Rooney on 14.300. We listen daily to the cruisng net for weather
updates ect..ect.. Later called a passing ship and my friend meet me
on another channel to have a pow wow with noaa and USCG SAR. They
requested I activate the EPIRB when we decided it was time to go. I
had a 406 that also broadcasted at 121 at the same time.

Skipper says thanks

Joe




Joe, you were on the WRONG BAND.....

The 2 Mhz marine band acts exactly like the AM broadcast band. Tune
across the AM band in the daytime. What do you hear? Only powerful
local stations, because the only propagation on the AM band when your
area is pointed into the solar wind is GROUND WAVE. 1KW goes about 10
miles. 150 watts from a marine HF/SSB into a rotten base tuned-very-
heavily antenna goes about as far as your VHF walkie. They were
listening, but they couldn't hear you that far out on 2182 in the
daytime.

Here's a kind of "average responding" chart:

These single sideband radiotelephone channels are used for communications
between coast and ship stations. Frequencies listed are carrier
frequencies. Channels used for calling, and channels guarded by the U.S.
Coast Guard are indicated.


RANGE (NM)
Time of day: Day Night

* 2 Mhz Channels 0-20GW 0-300
* 4 MHz Channels 0-50GW 50-500
* 6 MHz Channels 0-100GW 50-1000
* 8 MHz Channels 100-500 300-1200
* 12 MHz Channels 100-1000 300-2000
* 16 MHz Channels 200-1500 300-3000
* 18 MHz Channels 300-2000 300-4000
* 22 MHz Channels 300-2000 300-4000
* 25 MHz Channels 300-3000 300-5000

The 3 highest bands are very subject to sunspot activity. Some times
during the 11 year sunspot cycle, solar maximums, you might hear yourself
echo on 25 Mhz all the way around bouncing multiple hops. In low sunspot
cycles, the bands are DEAD.

A great way to learn how the propagation is from your boat, at sea, to CG
stations is to listen to their WEFAX continuous transmissions on:

NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA, U.S.A. (Planned Nov 05, 2007 change is
cancelled)
CALL SIGN FREQUENCIES TIMES POWER
NMG 4317.9 kHz ALL BROADCAST TIMES 5 KW
8503.9 kHz ALL BROADCAST TIMES 5 KW
12789.9 kHz ALL BROADCAST TIMES 5 KW
17146.4 kHz 1200Z - 2045Z 5 KW


BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS, U.S.A.
CALL SIGN FREQUENCIES TIMES POWER
NMF 4235 kHz 0230z-1028z 5 KW
6340.5 kHz ALL BROADCAST TIMES 5 KW
9110 kHz ALL BROADCAST TIMES 5 KW
12750 kHz 1400z-2228z 5 KW

PT. REYES, CALIFORNIA, U.S.A. (Planned Nov 05, 2007 change is cancelled)


CALL SIGN FREQUENCIES TIMES POWER
NMC 4346 kHz NIGHT 4 KW
8682 kHz ALL BROADCAST TIMES 4 KW
12786 kHz ALL BROADCAST TIMES 4 KW
17151.2 kHz ALL BROADCAST TIMES 4 KW
22527 kHz DAY 4 KW

The big Harris transmitters are hooked up to much better antenna systems
than a boat could ever dream of, broadband conical monopoles over huge
counterpoise grounding systems. They generate an incredible field. (You
can feel it close to the antenna.)

But, if you PREPROGRAM these frequencies and label them into your NEW
Icom M802 in the new boat, you can quickly rotate through them to see who
has the BEST signal on the meter, switch to that station's CALLING
frequency, press TUNE (make sure), and call 'em very quickly. Using
their constant WEFAX as a propagation tool, you'll have a MUCH better
chance of getting an answer to that distress call on HF/SSB.

In the daytime, where you were, I'd first try NMG on 4 Mhz Calling IF I
could hear a good signal from them on 4317Khz. Failing that, I'd give up
trying to call New Orleans, entirely and switch to 9110 to see how well
NMF in Boston is coming in. You should have comms with NMF on 12 Mhz
even 8 Mhz in the daytime from the Gulf shore.

In the day on HF, long range stations on the higher freqs of 8, 12, 16
Mhz are a much better path than trying to call the closest station on 2
or 4 Mhz when the sun has blown away those low bands' ionospheric layers.
Those layers only exist on the DARK SIDE of the planet.

Any sailors with an HF radio really ought to put down the marlinspike
seamanship manuals and learn how to use their radios. Do a LOT of
listening to the different bands, especially the ship simplex
frequencies, at different times of the day to learn what frequencies have
the MOST ships and shore stations YOU CAN HEAR on them, how far each
frequency band can go at different times of the day, in realtime, and
listen to the procedures used since WW2 on HF radio. There's not a lot
of traffic, now, because the ships have gone to satphones and satellite
data links, but there's still a lot of tramp freighters with old SSB
radios calling various still-open shore stations with traffic.

Sure glad you got great response on 14.300. NOTE - 14 Mhz band....near
12 and 16 Mhz marine bands......NOT 2182! 2 Mhz is USELESS in the
daytime....unless you can also talk to him on VHF-FM...


Larry W4CSC
Charleston, SC
ham licensed since 1957
(er, ah, I was 11!)

All good points, Larry. For what it is worth a few nationalities
still keep continuous radio watches on the official marine SSB voice
distress frequencies:

2182
4125
6215
8291
12290
16420

With those you should at least be able to pick up Taupo Maritime Radio/
ZLM, New Zealand if you're in the South Pacific... I don't really
know if anyone else is still listening. There are equivalent DSC
frequencies for those so equipped. Also, there's usually a HAM on
14.300 who knows how to deal with a priority call. You don't need to
be a HAM if you've got priority traffic -- don't let the radio cops
scare you away!

-- Tom.

In article
,
" wrote:

All good points, Larry. For what it is worth a few nationalities
still keep continuous radio watches on the official marine SSB voice
distress frequencies:

From USCG (http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/MARCOMMS/...mdss_faq.htm):
....
Can ships fitted for Sea Area A1 meet GMDSS carriage requirements if
they stay within 20 nm of the U.S. shore?* Can ships fitted for Sea Area
A2 meet the requirements of they stay within 70-100 nm of the U.S.
shore?** Is the Gulf of Mexico a Sea Area A2?
No.* GMDSS Sea Areas A1 and A2 are defined by shore radio coverage, not
by distance offshore.* The Gulf of Mexico should never be a Sea Area A2
because of 2 MHz propagation limitations.* Except for some very limited
MF DSC coverage around our Communications Stations, the U.S. currently
has no operational Sea Areas A1 or A2.* Until these areas are in place,
ships must fit for GMDSS Area A3, or request a waiver from the FCC.* We
plan to publish expected Sea Area A2 coverage charts by summer 2001.*
For more information, see the GMDSS Area webpage.
....

GMDSS ships will be allowed to cease guarding VHF channel 16 on February
1, 2005, and have already ceased watchkeeping on 2182 kHz.* Is that
safe?* How will ships not equipped with GMDSS (i.e. digital selective
calling) be able to contact such ships in an emergency?
That question was raised at the International Maritime Organization.* It
was to prevent this interoperability problem that the date GMDSS ships
may cease to guard VHF channel 16 was deferred six years, until 2005.*
DSC should be common on new radios, and presumably, on ships not subject
to GMDSS, by that date.* 2182 kHz watchkeeping is another matter.* In
that case, an interoperability problem already exists.* Most
SOLAS-regulated ships guarding 2182kHz do so using an autoalarm
receiver, which can only be triggered by an autoalarm signal transmitted
on 2182 kHz.* Autoalarm receivers and signal generators are not
new;SOLAS-regulated ships have been using them for decades.* Since few
ships not subject to GMDSS carry an autoalarm generator, they could not
initiate contact on 2182 kHz with most SOLAS ships.* Extending the 2182
kHz watchkeeping date on those ships would benefit no one.** For that
reason IMO decided to allow GMDSS-regulated ships to discontinue
watchkeeping on 2182 kHz on February 1, 1999, as originally scheduled.
*The U.S. Coast Guard will, of course, continue a listening watch, with
a live watchstander, on both VHF channel 16 and 2182 kHz.*
....

So it looks like propagation was the limit on 2182.
2182 has been phased out under GMDSS as watch channel, replaced by DSC
frequencies.

Too bad in this case.

With a new transmitter the DSC distress and urgency calls are quite
easy, and it is viable to send them in multiple bands in a few minutes.
Most likely activating the EPIRB earlier would have been ok too.

Anyway, it's always easy from a safe place - wish you'll never need it
again.

Marc

--
remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail
http://www.heusser.com

" wrote in news:c4435e7f-2352-4318-
:

You don't need to
be a HAM if you've got priority traffic -- don't let the radio cops
scare you away!


Yes, this is absolutely true. If any ham, by the way, starts in on you in
a distress situation, make SURE you get his callsign so you can later make
a report to the FCC (here in the States). They take a very dim view of
interfering with a distress call or refusing to help. Lucky for us the
boys on 14.300 won't put up with it. Quite a few ****heads have felt the
pain of losing their licenses and some heavy money, if they chose to fight.

Larry
--
As the price of Monopoly money rises, at some point it will equal
Federal Reserve Private Bank fake banknotes in value!

On Jan 11, 12:32*am, " wrote:
All good points, Larry. *For what it is worth a few nationalities
still keep continuous radio watches on the official marine SSB voice
distress frequencies:

2182
4125
6215
8291
12290
16420


Tried everyone one the list above and even a few restricted military
freq. Keep in mind this was 03:00 to 07:30 New Years day. Can you
think of a worse time to get military personnel on the horn? ;0)

Then I called on 14.300 to the mariners net and found a familiar
voice of a guy named Rooney. A top notch fellow who had control of the
net at the time. He worked with another fellow who called the 8th
district in New Orleans (uGH). At the time I was just advising them of
our position and drift speed and direction and requesting that they
standby in case RedCloud started drifting towards any oil platforms
and we requested they provide us updated weather information. I also
requested a tow.

Was refused the tow, even after calling many commerical towing
outfits, they would not come out in the weather. The USCG had a 87
fter on the Sabine that could have been out in 8 hours. My brother an
X coasties said the "roter heads" wanted all the glory. I'd never say
anything like that having not served in the USCG and working on many
many rough weather rescues closely with the air group like my brother
did.

I know if I had an 87 fter like this a meer 8 hours away

http://www.uscg.mil/d8/cgcHeron/img/cgcHeron.jpg

and were in command, I could have taken RedCloud under tow in the
conditions we were in, it would have been a hell of a ride, but I
would have been chomping at the bit to go.

I'm grafeful for all the assistance the USCG gave, but IMO if they
wanted to, they could have worked with me and saved my home and
business. All my career I have been lucky enough to only assit the
USCG, and have always been egar to do so.

Well that's my rant..I have no one to blame but myself. I put my
vessel in a bad spot at a bad time and got what I had coming. If you
head offshore and you get any assitance at all....you need to feel
damn lucky for it.

Joe









































With those you should at least be able to pick up Taupo Maritime Radio/
ZLM, New Zealand if you're in the South Pacific... *I don't really
know if anyone else is still listening. *There are equivalent DSC
frequencies for those so equipped. *Also, there's usually a HAM on
14.300 who knows how to deal with a priority call. *You don't need to
be a HAM if you've got priority traffic -- don't let the radio cops
scare you away!

-- Tom.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:24:18 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

Indeed, after calling for hours on 2182 with zero responce, I got
Rooney on 14.300.

Although 2182 is still an "official" distress frequency it is largely
ineffective for several reasons. Your chances of actually reaching
USCG are much higher on 4125 or 6215 .

Both of these simplex calling/distress frequencies are monitored 24/7
by USCG and they generally have much greater range than 2182.