I received a few additional e-mails from my friend, who is a friend of
the people that abandoned the Erikson 47 a few days ago:

---------------------------------------------
A fair number of yachts head south in November on the theory that the
chance of hurricanes is pretty much nil. Of course the chances of
autumnal gales increase. We knew a merchant captain who claimed the
best time was around Christmas for a shot to Bermuda. (It often seems
there is a lull around the first of the year though it is usually
quite cold til across the Gulf stream.

Our friends had hired a weather router and I watched the charts
casually and thought they picked a reasonable time but the weather
these days is quite volatile. I would hope the weather router is at
least very embarrassed.

The boat had a 70ft mast so the ICW was off limits to them. In
retrospect they should have gone: NS to Cape Cod to Block to Cape May
to Norfolk and then to Bermuda but....

I will be interested to hear Brian's post mortem.
--------------------------------------------

[asked if its OK to post his comments]
Sure, go ahead, but I'm not really qualified to comment about offshore
sailing. Ask me about the time of year to scoff moorings:-)

BTW the boat was apparently abandoned in floating condition. Knowing
the boat I think it was a reasonable decision from a practical and
financial standpoint. The boat was old and well raced. The rig was rod
with a very high tech mast almost impossible to replace at any
reasonable cost. So basically I agree with the abandonment from a
financial standpoint. Also the presence of crew with a broken arm
presumably beyond helicopter evacuation range plays a role. Once again
I don't know the precise circumstances or Brians thoughts at the time.

They were all experienced and I trust their abilities to make informed
decisions so if you quote me please don't do it in a manner which
would embarrass my friends. But I doubt you would!

If there is a lesson to be derived from these three abandonments I
think it is that the usual weather guides may no longer be valid given
the general unpredictability of weather over the last 5 -10 years or
so. I think offshore sailing may be riskier.

And communications have made abandonment very easy.

----------------------------------------------
and finally, this link:
http://www.herald.ns.ca/NovaScotia/540343.html

It's amazing how many boats that are abandoned are later found
floating in survivable condition. Boats are generally tougher than
the crews these days. Being able to call for help no doubt effects the
decision making process. I think the statistic (based on being a
researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5
abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about
before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave
your dream behind.

It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG
ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit
(from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week
cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to
steer it, it did just fine."

--

Roger Long



"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
I received a few additional e-mails from my friend, who is a friend
of the people that abandoned the Erikson 47 a few days ago:

---------------------------------------------
A fair number of yachts head south in November on the theory that
the chance of hurricanes is pretty much nil. Of course the chances
of autumnal gales increase. We knew a merchant captain who claimed
the best time was around Christmas for a shot to Bermuda. (It often
seems there is a lull around the first of the year though it is
usually quite cold til across the Gulf stream.

Our friends had hired a weather router and I watched the charts
casually and thought they picked a reasonable time but the weather
these days is quite volatile. I would hope the weather router is at
least very embarrassed.

The boat had a 70ft mast so the ICW was off limits to them. In
retrospect they should have gone: NS to Cape Cod to Block to Cape
May to Norfolk and then to Bermuda but....

I will be interested to hear Brian's post mortem.
--------------------------------------------

[asked if its OK to post his comments]
Sure, go ahead, but I'm not really qualified to comment about
offshore sailing. Ask me about the time of year to scoff
moorings:-)

BTW the boat was apparently abandoned in floating condition. Knowing
the boat I think it was a reasonable decision from a practical and
financial standpoint. The boat was old and well raced. The rig was
rod with a very high tech mast almost impossible to replace at any
reasonable cost. So basically I agree with the abandonment from a
financial standpoint. Also the presence of crew with a broken arm
presumably beyond helicopter evacuation range plays a role. Once
again I don't know the precise circumstances or Brians thoughts at
the time.

They were all experienced and I trust their abilities to make
informed decisions so if you quote me please don't do it in a manner
which would embarrass my friends. But I doubt you would!

If there is a lesson to be derived from these three abandonments I
think it is that the usual weather guides may no longer be valid
given the general unpredictability of weather over the last 5 -10
years or so. I think offshore sailing may be riskier.

And communications have made abandonment very easy.

----------------------------------------------
and finally, this link:
http://www.herald.ns.ca/NovaScotia/540343.html

"Roger Long" wrote in news:4EN5h.15970$xw1.5156
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG
ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit
(from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week
cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to
steer it, it did just fine."



I remember reading a story about a boat the owner abandoned off California
in a terrible storm. Several years later, some fishermen dragged it into
Hawaii and CG called them to come get it. You're right about the steering.
It must have been a long voyage to Hawaii in the current. The story said
the bilge pump was still working off the solar-charged batteries! Wonder
how many storms it went through with noone steering over those years? It
was fine....

Do they have to pay the insurance company back to keep from being
prosecuted for insurance fraud when that happens? I've often wondered how
many abandonments actually involved insurance fraud, trying to get more
money out of a boat than the market was willing to pay, if anything....It's
a point.

Larry
--
My calendar must be wrong....
In all the stores, it's ALREADY Christmas!

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:56:00 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG
ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit
(from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week
cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to
steer it, it did just fine."

What was the nature of his "distress"? One of the problems with
calling the USCG for an injury situation is that they can order
everyone off the boat and it's no longer in your hands to make the
abandon ship decision.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:56:00 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG
ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit
(from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week
cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to
steer it, it did just fine."

What was the nature of his "distress"? One of the problems with
calling the USCG for an injury situation is that they can order
everyone off the boat and it's no longer in your hands to make the
abandon ship decision.


Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in
order to save you?

Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in
order to save you?


Of course they will not shoot you. They are up in
a helicopter usually, and the only one close to
your boat is the rescue diver.

However, if you are a US citizen, and you refuse
orders to abandon boat, two things will likely
happen.

1) If conditions get worse and you actually
need to abandon ship you will be on your own.

2) When you get back to the US you may be
facing an administrative hearing and a fine for
disobeying a Coast Guard regulation about
continuing an unsafe voyage.

If you are not a US citizen, and don't land in the
USA, then I'd think you'd probably be okay as long
as Neptune didn't get you.

YMMV,

Don W.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:20:57 GMT, Don W
wrote:

2) When you get back to the US you may be
facing an administrative hearing and a fine for
disobeying a Coast Guard regulation about
continuing an unsafe voyage.

Or "disobeying a lawful order" or "obstruction of governmental
administration" or some such. I would assume that the USCG rescue
jumpers have had some training in how to deal with the uncooperative.

I once asked a stewardess on a plane (pre 9/11) what would happen if I
refused to give up my ticketed and confirmed seat that I was being
bumped from. She was very quick to quote the list of potential
offences that I could be charged with.

Truth is that most people being asked to abandon ship by a rescue team
have already been through hell and back, and are more than eager to
comply even if the boat is in no immediate danger of going down.
Typically the boat has already been dismasted and lost power.

I once asked a stewardess on a plane (pre 9/11) what would happen if I
refused to give up my ticketed and confirmed seat that I was being
bumped from. She was very quick to quote the list of potential
offences that I could be charged with.

Well, I doubt that holds the same credibility as an order from the Coast
Guard. But most folks aren't interested in the hassles of trying to argue
with the idiots working the airline counters. And someone in a boating
distress situation isn't terribly likely either.

Looks like I have missed a few of these posts.
Maybe my question has already been answered?

Does boat insurance cover "abandonment".


"Bill Kearney" wrote in message
t...
I once asked a stewardess on a plane (pre 9/11) what would happen if I
refused to give up my ticketed and confirmed seat that I was being
bumped from. She was very quick to quote the list of potential
offences that I could be charged with.

Well, I doubt that holds the same credibility as an order from the Coast
Guard. But most folks aren't interested in the hassles of trying to argue
with the idiots working the airline counters. And someone in a boating
distress situation isn't terribly likely either.

Don,, you make good sense. If you call for help,,, you can't say "just
kidding" when the help arrives.

On the other hand,,, many times the CG will drop a pump or take someone off
a boat and the boat will continue on.

I think the thing to remember:::::::::::::: don't get caught out in the
muck in the first place. Plan, plan, plan ....................


and when your done planning ..............


Start planning.














===
"Don W" wrote in message
t...

Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in
order to save you?

Of course they will not shoot you. They are up in a helicopter usually,
and the only one close to your boat is the rescue diver.

However, if you are a US citizen, and you refuse orders to abandon boat,
two things will likely happen.

1) If conditions get worse and you actually need to abandon ship you
will be on your own.

2) When you get back to the US you may be facing an administrative
hearing and a fine for disobeying a Coast Guard regulation about
continuing an unsafe voyage.

If you are not a US citizen, and don't land in the USA, then I'd think
you'd probably be okay as long as Neptune didn't get you.

YMMV,

Don W.