In article ,
"KLC Lewis" wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:56:00 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG
ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit
(from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week
cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to
steer it, it did just fine."

What was the nature of his "distress"? One of the problems with
calling the USCG for an injury situation is that they can order
everyone off the boat and it's no longer in your hands to make the
abandon ship decision.


Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in
order to save you?



No, if you refuse to leave, they just go HOME and leave you to your own
devices.

In article ,
Larry wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in news:4EN5h.15970$xw1.5156
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG
ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit
(from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week
cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to
steer it, it did just fine."



I remember reading a story about a boat the owner abandoned off California
in a terrible storm. Several years later, some fishermen dragged it into
Hawaii and CG called them to come get it. You're right about the steering.
It must have been a long voyage to Hawaii in the current. The story said
the bilge pump was still working off the solar-charged batteries! Wonder
how many storms it went through with noone steering over those years? It
was fine....

Do they have to pay the insurance company back to keep from being
prosecuted for insurance fraud when that happens? I've often wondered how
many abandonments actually involved insurance fraud, trying to get more
money out of a boat than the market was willing to pay, if anything....It's
a point.

Larry

If the Insurance Company paid off on the boat, it no longer belongs to
the person, but to the Insurance Company. It is their, the Insurance
Companys, responcibility to deal with the Hull and Salvage, at that
point.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Gogarty wrote in
:

Well, if the boat were owned by a Jewish banker, then obviously it's
fraud.



Jew bankers don't drive their boats. They have them crewed to the next
port, then fly in and use them for a dock condo and whorehouse until they
have to get back to the office. Crews drive Jew bankers' boats from port
to port....(c;

Larry
--
JC Penney thinks Christmas is a Jewish Holiday!

Why don't you take your racist comments somewhere else. Besides being vile,
it has nothing to do with sailing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Gogarty wrote in
:

Well, if the boat were owned by a Jewish banker, then obviously it's
fraud.



Jew bankers don't drive their boats. They have them crewed to the next
port, then fly in and use them for a dock condo and whorehouse until they
have to get back to the office. Crews drive Jew bankers' boats from port
to port....(c;

Larry
--
JC Penney thinks Christmas is a Jewish Holiday!

I think the statistic (based on being a
researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5
abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about
before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave
your dream behind.

The boat may not sink, but may be unsafe for people to stay onboard. A
yacht in violent seas is very dangerous. Lots of ways to severely injure
a human made of soft tissue. The boat may survive, but the bodies inside
can be severely broken up.

A skipper must also weigh calling for help at such time as the boat will
surely be afloat when rescue arrives versus waiting until moments before
submerging to call, when the crew will be in the water for a long time
before help arrives.

Also can be difficult to predict just when the boat will go under. Can
reach a point of instability and sink very fast from that point on -
much faster than it was up to that point.

Better safe than sor- - er, um. dead.

This is a very complex subject.
During the Legendary Fasnet race boats were abandoned with people left for
dead on board.
After the storm the abandoned boat was located with the member of the crew
that was left behind for dead found alive.

wrote in message
...
I think the statistic (based on being a
researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5
abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about
before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave
your dream behind.

The boat may not sink, but may be unsafe for people to stay onboard. A
yacht in violent seas is very dangerous. Lots of ways to severely injure
a human made of soft tissue. The boat may survive, but the bodies inside
can be severely broken up.

A skipper must also weigh calling for help at such time as the boat will
surely be afloat when rescue arrives versus waiting until moments before
submerging to call, when the crew will be in the water for a long time
before help arrives.

Also can be difficult to predict just when the boat will go under. Can
reach a point of instability and sink very fast from that point on -
much faster than it was up to that point.

Better safe than sor- - er, um. dead.

Which boat was that?

wrote in message
...
This is a very complex subject.
During the Legendary Fasnet race boats were abandoned with people left for
dead on board.
After the storm the abandoned boat was located with the member of the crew
that was left behind for dead found alive.

wrote in message
...
I think the statistic (based on being a
researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5
abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about
before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave
your dream behind.

The boat may not sink, but may be unsafe for people to stay onboard. A
yacht in violent seas is very dangerous. Lots of ways to severely injure
a human made of soft tissue. The boat may survive, but the bodies inside
can be severely broken up.

A skipper must also weigh calling for help at such time as the boat will
surely be afloat when rescue arrives versus waiting until moments before
submerging to call, when the crew will be in the water for a long time
before help arrives.

Also can be difficult to predict just when the boat will go under. Can
reach a point of instability and sink very fast from that point on -
much faster than it was up to that point.

Better safe than sor- - er, um. dead.

wrote in message
...
This is a very complex subject.
During the Legendary Fasnet race boats were abandoned with people left for
dead on board.
After the storm the abandoned boat was located with the member of the crew
that was left behind for dead found alive.

wrote in message
...
I think the statistic (based on being a
researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5
abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about
before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave
your dream behind.

The boat may not sink, but may be unsafe for people to stay onboard. A
yacht in violent seas is very dangerous. Lots of ways to severely injure
a human made of soft tissue. The boat may survive, but the bodies inside
can be severely broken up.

A skipper must also weigh calling for help at such time as the boat will
surely be afloat when rescue arrives versus waiting until moments before
submerging to call, when the crew will be in the water for a long time
before help arrives.

Also can be difficult to predict just when the boat will go under. Can
reach a point of instability and sink very fast from that point on -
much faster than it was up to that point.

Better safe than sor- - er, um. dead.

I also recall that some crew abandoned ship during that race because the
conditions below were extemely dangerous.. all sorts of stuff flying about
in the washing machine-style effect that can happen with capsizing over and
over. I'm not saying they were any safer in a little raft, but I can see why
they might have thought so.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"You" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"KLC Lewis" wrote:


Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in
order to save you?



No, if you refuse to leave, they just go HOME and leave you to your own
devices.

Ah, but that would be the point, no?

If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the
next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently
now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was
fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind
for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and
while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws,
a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are
willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled?

Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position
(and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my
take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information
presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a
storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant).
Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song
about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe"
choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane
whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the
week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He
had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got
beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in
hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down.

As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation
changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and
those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go
down with the ship." No boat is worth a life.

Steve Hayes
Maine