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#61
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Radar on a cell phone
you're right, eric. on lake norman thunderstorms form in less than 8 minutes,
in absolutely clear skies, with no warning whatsoever. but *if* what you say is true, eric, what good would a cell phone radar do you? Huh? Ever been to Lake Norman? I have, I used to work a few miles from there. Do you know anything about the terrain? Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... eric, that is a newspaper story, and has much to do with what actually happened as any other news story. Weather just does not and can not develop that quickly. Besides you can tell the reporter was fictionalizing when s/he slipped in that part about Few of the participants noticed an area of dark sky emerging behind them you also can tell that by blasted by a wall of water huh? what "wall of water" is that? most of the rest of the rhetoric in the story is the reporter "adding drama", as the phrase goes in journalism school. as far as the rest of that goes, one day a few years ago four people died in a thunderstorm in the waters I normally sail when a thunderstorm came through packing 90+ knots of wind. Many boats on the water damaged. My boat was not. Why? because I didnt go out that day knowing full well the chances of very high winds. I expected the high winds about 2:00, and they hit about 4:00. This ain't rocket science. Those dark clouds mean *something* and if they are traveling to the north of you you might be in for a bit of trouble. Plan for it. And being out in potential storm conditions in a lightweight racing boat means you have to keep your eyes open. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, if it makes you feel better carry a baby blanket and a binky. The storm On May 6, 1989 around 1:00 p.m., 93 sailboats were underway in a large regatta on Lake Norman. By all accounts it was a "bluebird day" -- no clouds, medium-heavy breeze (12-18 knots). A perfect day for a sailboat race. While the NOAA forecast had called for possible thunderstorms late that afternoon, no one expected severe weather. At about 12:30, NOAA issued a "microburst warning" for the area. By then, the regatta was well underway. Everyone was watching their sail trim and their competitors. Most of the fleet was on a long down-wind leg. Few of the participants noticed an area of dark sky emerging behind them. Ten minutes later, the fleet was blasted by a wall of water and winds officially clocked at 64 – 78 knots. * Two sailors drowned. * Nineteen sailors were swept overboard and had to be rescued. * Four boats sank. * Sixty-two boats were substantially damaged. On Lake Norman -- a nice scenic inland lake (sound familiar??), two and one-half hours from SML. Survivors described the conditions thusly: * "A wall of gray—30 feet above the water, roaring towards us." * "The lake itself seemed to be lifted from its bed." * "A mixture of lake water, rain, and hail blew like a firehose." * "Seven foot waves broke over the banks." One sailor, suddenly aware of the storm, tried to drop his sails, but the sudden heavy pressure locked the halyards. He was knocked down with shredded sails. Another sailor tried to secure his companionway during a knockdown, but water was already pouring in the cabin. His boat sank. Many boats were either demasted or lost sails. |
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#63
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Radar on a cell phone
Sailing on inland waterways, you don't have the long range visibility
you have on the open ocean, combine that with the haze that hangs over many southern areas in the summer and a thunderstorm can approach (not form) very quickly. They frequently can move at 20 to 30 miles per hour. Cells are frequently isolated and small so having accurate up-to-date information about their location and direction of travel can be very helpful. It's not a substitute for being aware of one's surroundings but it's a potentially useful tool. As for not going out at all when thunderstorms are forecast - you wouldn't do much sailing on the Chesapeake Bay in the summer because that's the typical forecast for every afternoon in the summer. Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... you're right, eric. on lake norman thunderstorms form in less than 8 minutes, in absolutely clear skies, with no warning whatsoever. but *if* what you say is true, eric, what good would a cell phone radar do you? Huh? Ever been to Lake Norman? I have, I used to work a few miles from there. Do you know anything about the terrain? Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... eric, that is a newspaper story, and has much to do with what actually happened as any other news story. Weather just does not and can not develop that quickly. Besides you can tell the reporter was fictionalizing when s/he slipped in that part about Few of the participants noticed an area of dark sky emerging behind them you also can tell that by blasted by a wall of water huh? what "wall of water" is that? most of the rest of the rhetoric in the story is the reporter "adding drama", as the phrase goes in journalism school. as far as the rest of that goes, one day a few years ago four people died in a thunderstorm in the waters I normally sail when a thunderstorm came through packing 90+ knots of wind. Many boats on the water damaged. My boat was not. Why? because I didnt go out that day knowing full well the chances of very high winds. I expected the high winds about 2:00, and they hit about 4:00. This ain't rocket science. Those dark clouds mean *something* and if they are traveling to the north of you you might be in for a bit of trouble. Plan for it. And being out in potential storm conditions in a lightweight racing boat means you have to keep your eyes open. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, if it makes you feel better carry a baby blanket and a binky. The storm On May 6, 1989 around 1:00 p.m., 93 sailboats were underway in a large regatta on Lake Norman. By all accounts it was a "bluebird day" -- no clouds, medium-heavy breeze (12-18 knots). A perfect day for a sailboat race. While the NOAA forecast had called for possible thunderstorms late that afternoon, no one expected severe weather. At about 12:30, NOAA issued a "microburst warning" for the area. By then, the regatta was well underway. Everyone was watching their sail trim and their competitors. Most of the fleet was on a long down-wind leg. Few of the participants noticed an area of dark sky emerging behind them. Ten minutes later, the fleet was blasted by a wall of water and winds officially clocked at 64 â€" 78 knots. * Two sailors drowned. * Nineteen sailors were swept overboard and had to be rescued. * Four boats sank. * Sixty-two boats were substantially damaged. On Lake Norman -- a nice scenic inland lake (sound familiar??), two and one-half hours from SML. Survivors described the conditions thusly: * "A wall of grayâ€"30 feet above the water, roaring towards us." * "The lake itself seemed to be lifted from its bed." * "A mixture of lake water, rain, and hail blew like a firehose." * "Seven foot waves broke over the banks." One sailor, suddenly aware of the storm, tried to drop his sails, but the sudden heavy pressure locked the halyards. He was knocked down with shredded sails. Another sailor tried to secure his companionway during a knockdown, but water was already pouring in the cabin. His boat sank. Many boats were either demasted or lost sails. |
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#64
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Radar on a cell phone
Your trig may be correct as far as the altitude is concerned but
practically speaking, you can rarely see anything 300 nm away. I would agree they don't tend to come up on you in 10 minutes but it may take a lot longer than 10 minutes to get to a safe harbor/dock/anchorage. Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... There are lots of places where people sail and it's difficult to see a thunderstorm coming bull****. Thunderstorm clouds go as high as 60,000 feet sometimes, which means they can be seen up to 300 nm away. Even 10,000 foot high clouds can be seen up to 122 nm away. Can't see that coming? And there are many places where the potential exists every day in the summer thunderstorms don't form inside of 30 seconds. You *KNOW* they are coming, if one just pays attention. |
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#65
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Radar on a cell phone
Your trig may be correct as far as the altitude is concerned but
practically speaking, you can rarely see anything 300 nm away. I would agree they don't tend to come up on you in 10 minutes but it may take a lot longer than 10 minutes to get to a safe harbor/dock/anchorage. Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... There are lots of places where people sail and it's difficult to see a thunderstorm coming bull****. Thunderstorm clouds go as high as 60,000 feet sometimes, which means they can be seen up to 300 nm away. Even 10,000 foot high clouds can be seen up to 122 nm away. Can't see that coming? And there are many places where the potential exists every day in the summer thunderstorms don't form inside of 30 seconds. You *KNOW* they are coming, if one just pays attention. |
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#66
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Radar on a cell phone
a.) I spent 3-1/2 decades living in the Upper Midwest, which included
uncountable times on boats on lakes from small to large. I know afternoon thunderstorms, and NEVER saw one "suddenly" hit. Even 8 year old kids knew when a thunderstorm was likely to hit, and b.) I sail Long Island Sound and thunderstorms are more frequent at certain times than other times. However, I have NEVER seen a thunderstorm develop I didn't know was coming. Now, I have seen other sailors out there who didn't know a thunderstorm _might_ be coming (a lot of blind as a bat sailors out there) but still NEVER saw a thunderstorm "suddenly" hit without warning. Again, I have seen sailors totally ignorant but that doesn't mean the signs weren't there. They just weren't paying attention. In fact, they seemed to be purposely not paying attention. perhaps the cell phone radar is the phone company's way of relieving ignorant sailors of the money in their wallets. A cell phone that says, "See those dark clouds roiling over there? That is a thunderstorm, dummy". Sailing on inland waterways, you don't have the long range visibility you have on the open ocean, combine that with the haze that hangs over many southern areas in the summer and a thunderstorm can approach (not form) very quickly. They frequently can move at 20 to 30 miles per hour. Cells are frequently isolated and small so having accurate up-to-date information about their location and direction of travel can be very helpful. It's not a substitute for being aware of one's surroundings but it's a potentially useful tool. As for not going out at all when thunderstorms are forecast - you wouldn't do much sailing on the Chesapeake Bay in the summer because that's the typical forecast for every afternoon in the summer. Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... you're right, eric. on lake norman thunderstorms form in less than 8 minutes, in absolutely clear skies, with no warning whatsoever. but *if* what you say is true, eric, what good would a cell phone radar do you? Huh? Ever been to Lake Norman? I have, I used to work a few miles from there. Do you know anything about the terrain? Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... eric, that is a newspaper story, and has much to do with what actually happened as any other news story. Weather just does not and can not develop that quickly. Besides you can tell the reporter was fictionalizing when s/he slipped in that part about Few of the participants noticed an area of dark sky emerging behind them you also can tell that by blasted by a wall of water huh? what "wall of water" is that? most of the rest of the rhetoric in the story is the reporter "adding drama", as the phrase goes in journalism school. as far as the rest of that goes, one day a few years ago four people died in a thunderstorm in the waters I normally sail when a thunderstorm came through packing 90+ knots of wind. Many boats on the water damaged. My boat was not. Why? because I didnt go out that day knowing full well the chances of very high winds. I expected the high winds about 2:00, and they hit about 4:00. This ain't rocket science. Those dark clouds mean *something* and if they are traveling to the north of you you might be in for a bit of trouble. Plan for it. And being out in potential storm conditions in a lightweight racing boat means you have to keep your eyes open. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, if it makes you feel better carry a baby blanket and a binky. The storm On May 6, 1989 around 1:00 p.m., 93 sailboats were underway in a large regatta on Lake Norman. By all accounts it was a "bluebird day" -- no clouds, medium-heavy breeze (12-18 knots). A perfect day for a sailboat race. While the NOAA forecast had called for possible thunderstorms late that afternoon, no one expected severe weather. At about 12:30, NOAA issued a "microburst warning" for the area. By then, the regatta was well underway. Everyone was watching their sail trim and their competitors. Most of the fleet was on a long down-wind leg. Few of the participants noticed an area of dark sky emerging behind them. Ten minutes later, the fleet was blasted by a wall of water and winds officially clocked at 64 â_" 78 knots. * Two sailors drowned. * Nineteen sailors were swept overboard and had to be rescued. * Four boats sank. * Sixty-two boats were substantially damaged. On Lake Norman -- a nice scenic inland lake (sound familiar??), two and one-half hours from SML. Survivors described the conditions thusly: * "A wall of grayâ_"30 feet above the water, roaring towards us." * "The lake itself seemed to be lifted from its bed." * "A mixture of lake water, rain, and hail blew like a firehose." * "Seven foot waves broke over the banks." One sailor, suddenly aware of the storm, tried to drop his sails, but the sudden heavy pressure locked the halyards. He was knocked down with shredded sails. Another sailor tried to secure his companionway during a knockdown, but water was already pouring in the cabin. His boat sank. Many boats were either demasted or lost sails. |
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#67
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Radar on a cell phone
a.) I spent 3-1/2 decades living in the Upper Midwest, which included
uncountable times on boats on lakes from small to large. I know afternoon thunderstorms, and NEVER saw one "suddenly" hit. Even 8 year old kids knew when a thunderstorm was likely to hit, and b.) I sail Long Island Sound and thunderstorms are more frequent at certain times than other times. However, I have NEVER seen a thunderstorm develop I didn't know was coming. Now, I have seen other sailors out there who didn't know a thunderstorm _might_ be coming (a lot of blind as a bat sailors out there) but still NEVER saw a thunderstorm "suddenly" hit without warning. Again, I have seen sailors totally ignorant but that doesn't mean the signs weren't there. They just weren't paying attention. In fact, they seemed to be purposely not paying attention. perhaps the cell phone radar is the phone company's way of relieving ignorant sailors of the money in their wallets. A cell phone that says, "See those dark clouds roiling over there? That is a thunderstorm, dummy". Sailing on inland waterways, you don't have the long range visibility you have on the open ocean, combine that with the haze that hangs over many southern areas in the summer and a thunderstorm can approach (not form) very quickly. They frequently can move at 20 to 30 miles per hour. Cells are frequently isolated and small so having accurate up-to-date information about their location and direction of travel can be very helpful. It's not a substitute for being aware of one's surroundings but it's a potentially useful tool. As for not going out at all when thunderstorms are forecast - you wouldn't do much sailing on the Chesapeake Bay in the summer because that's the typical forecast for every afternoon in the summer. Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... you're right, eric. on lake norman thunderstorms form in less than 8 minutes, in absolutely clear skies, with no warning whatsoever. but *if* what you say is true, eric, what good would a cell phone radar do you? Huh? Ever been to Lake Norman? I have, I used to work a few miles from there. Do you know anything about the terrain? Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... eric, that is a newspaper story, and has much to do with what actually happened as any other news story. Weather just does not and can not develop that quickly. Besides you can tell the reporter was fictionalizing when s/he slipped in that part about Few of the participants noticed an area of dark sky emerging behind them you also can tell that by blasted by a wall of water huh? what "wall of water" is that? most of the rest of the rhetoric in the story is the reporter "adding drama", as the phrase goes in journalism school. as far as the rest of that goes, one day a few years ago four people died in a thunderstorm in the waters I normally sail when a thunderstorm came through packing 90+ knots of wind. Many boats on the water damaged. My boat was not. Why? because I didnt go out that day knowing full well the chances of very high winds. I expected the high winds about 2:00, and they hit about 4:00. This ain't rocket science. Those dark clouds mean *something* and if they are traveling to the north of you you might be in for a bit of trouble. Plan for it. And being out in potential storm conditions in a lightweight racing boat means you have to keep your eyes open. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, if it makes you feel better carry a baby blanket and a binky. The storm On May 6, 1989 around 1:00 p.m., 93 sailboats were underway in a large regatta on Lake Norman. By all accounts it was a "bluebird day" -- no clouds, medium-heavy breeze (12-18 knots). A perfect day for a sailboat race. While the NOAA forecast had called for possible thunderstorms late that afternoon, no one expected severe weather. At about 12:30, NOAA issued a "microburst warning" for the area. By then, the regatta was well underway. Everyone was watching their sail trim and their competitors. Most of the fleet was on a long down-wind leg. Few of the participants noticed an area of dark sky emerging behind them. Ten minutes later, the fleet was blasted by a wall of water and winds officially clocked at 64 â_" 78 knots. * Two sailors drowned. * Nineteen sailors were swept overboard and had to be rescued. * Four boats sank. * Sixty-two boats were substantially damaged. On Lake Norman -- a nice scenic inland lake (sound familiar??), two and one-half hours from SML. Survivors described the conditions thusly: * "A wall of grayâ_"30 feet above the water, roaring towards us." * "The lake itself seemed to be lifted from its bed." * "A mixture of lake water, rain, and hail blew like a firehose." * "Seven foot waves broke over the banks." One sailor, suddenly aware of the storm, tried to drop his sails, but the sudden heavy pressure locked the halyards. He was knocked down with shredded sails. Another sailor tried to secure his companionway during a knockdown, but water was already pouring in the cabin. His boat sank. Many boats were either demasted or lost sails. |
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#68
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Radar on a cell phone
Eric, I suggest that the potential for thunderstorms is fully apparent on days
where a thunderstorm might develop. In fact, the the weather bureau forecasts such, often starting the day before. In addition, thunderstorms develop of a period of time, meaning they are no surprise when they hit. The problem some sailors have is that the winds and such are so nice right up until the storm breaks, so they ignore that it is likely to break in about 30 minutes or whatever. If a boat and/or sailor are not up to the effort, then the sailor should makes plans as how to handle the situation. Thunderstorms can produce winds of 90+ knots for a short period of time. You need to get your sails down and get yourself in a protected from the north cove and/or give yourself a mile or more of searoom to the south. Your trig may be correct as far as the altitude is concerned but practically speaking, you can rarely see anything 300 nm away. I would agree they don't tend to come up on you in 10 minutes but it may take a lot longer than 10 minutes to get to a safe harbor/dock/anchorage. Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... There are lots of places where people sail and it's difficult to see a thunderstorm coming bull****. Thunderstorm clouds go as high as 60,000 feet sometimes, which means they can be seen up to 300 nm away. Even 10,000 foot high clouds can be seen up to 122 nm away. Can't see that coming? And there are many places where the potential exists every day in the summer thunderstorms don't form inside of 30 seconds. You *KNOW* they are coming, if one just pays attention. |
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#69
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Radar on a cell phone
Eric, I suggest that the potential for thunderstorms is fully apparent on days
where a thunderstorm might develop. In fact, the the weather bureau forecasts such, often starting the day before. In addition, thunderstorms develop of a period of time, meaning they are no surprise when they hit. The problem some sailors have is that the winds and such are so nice right up until the storm breaks, so they ignore that it is likely to break in about 30 minutes or whatever. If a boat and/or sailor are not up to the effort, then the sailor should makes plans as how to handle the situation. Thunderstorms can produce winds of 90+ knots for a short period of time. You need to get your sails down and get yourself in a protected from the north cove and/or give yourself a mile or more of searoom to the south. Your trig may be correct as far as the altitude is concerned but practically speaking, you can rarely see anything 300 nm away. I would agree they don't tend to come up on you in 10 minutes but it may take a lot longer than 10 minutes to get to a safe harbor/dock/anchorage. Eric (JAXAshby) wrote in message ... There are lots of places where people sail and it's difficult to see a thunderstorm coming bull****. Thunderstorm clouds go as high as 60,000 feet sometimes, which means they can be seen up to 300 nm away. Even 10,000 foot high clouds can be seen up to 122 nm away. Can't see that coming? And there are many places where the potential exists every day in the summer thunderstorms don't form inside of 30 seconds. You *KNOW* they are coming, if one just pays attention. |
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#70
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Radar on a cell phone
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