On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:34:00 -0700, Joe
wrote:

On Aug 17, 4:06 am, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:13:57 -0400, "Roger Long"





wrote:
I went back down to the boat for something I forgot and decided I wanted to
play around a little more.

I've been telling myself since I got the boat that I should try hand
starting the diesel. Better to climb the learning curve at the dock than
while drifting down towards a steep lee shore after some electrical system
disaster. I also have the hand start ability factored into my battery
management strategy. Thanks to this newsgroup, I know that hand starting a
20 hp, twin cylinder, diesel is near the edge of feasibility but doable.

I pulled the big forged or cast iron starting handle out of its handy
brackets next to the engine and put it in place. HUH!? The fiberglass
structure of the engine compartment enclosure makes it impossible to turn
the handle more than a quarter turn. Since hand starting requires getting
it spinning rapidly with the cylinders decompressed and then using the
inertia of the flywheel and engine to (hopefully) kick it into life as you
continue to assist with the crank, there is no way this could begin to work.

I can categorically say that no one has ever hand started one of these boats
unless they were originally delivered with a special handle that the PO
perhaps replaced with the stock item (judging by the paint) not realizing
that it couldn't possibly start the engine. This design defect has
persisted through multiple models of a 1980 boat without ever coming to the
notice of the builders or being noted on the owner's group web site. This
is the most common engine installed in the class.

It's a perfect lesson of the test-everything-and-assume-nothing principle.

I now have a conundrum. I can spend more money to have the handle cut apart
and an extension welded in. The leverage of the cranking force working over
the longer length makes proper functioning questionable unless some
structure with a bearing is provided. I just spent a couple hundred dollars
on insurance in the form of chain so I'm not sure a starting handle for an
engine that can just barely be hand started is the wisest next expenditure.
I may just remove all of the hand start apparatus, which is pretty extensive
and in the way on this particular model, and join the ranks of larger boat
owners who live with the fact that their engines are not going to start
without a functioning battery and electrical system.

Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats?

Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save
space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you
can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-)

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Come on Bruce, boat designers know what they are doing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F_GW1ep5ls

Joe


Well, of course you are correct - HOWEVER - what they are doing is
perhaps not what I wish they had been doing when I am working on a
boat. For example, I'm sure that America's Cup boats are designed to
be the most efficient sailing boats in the world, but I doubt very
much that the designer gave much thought to changing the filters on
the auxiliary engine.....

On the other hand, if I were paying for the design of an America's Cup
boat perhaps I would have less interest in how to change the
filters.....

As an aside, the first Farr 40 my wife saw didn't impress her one
little bit. No back on the cockpit and a stupid little one burner
stove?




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

wrote in message
...

As an aside, the first Farr 40 my wife saw didn't impress her one
little bit. No back on the cockpit and a stupid little one burner
stove?

Women are the primary reason why so many sailboats today are such poor
excuses as boats. The little woman does not have any idea about what
things should take priority. About the difference between a good boat
and a poor boat. To women a big apartment-size galley is a must have.
And a big bathroom with hot shower and vanity and lots of lights for
putting on make-up. Also a very large dinette is a must so she can cook
and entertain. And a refrigerator/freezer (stand up, of course).

Never mind the boat won't sail. Never mind the cockpit's impossible
large. Never mind the tankage puts the boat well below her lines. Never
mind you can't get to the motor because kitchen cabinets are built all
around it. Never mind you have to ship two thousand pounds of batteries
and inverters to run her blow dryer, clothes dryer, and microwave. Never
mind all those large dangerous windows she's just got to have so it
looks like a house from inside. Nope, just built a boat like a floating
apartment and the women will say. "That's the one I want." You know
what's really more disgraceful than this? It's the man who knows he's
buying a piece of crap but does it anyway just to please the little
woman.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:59:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Never mind the boat won't sail

The old lady might be happy with a decent powerboat, and you don't
need high speed or big thirsty engine[s]. If you can install them low
enough to serve as useful ballast for your displacement hull boat,
then by all means have a ton of batteries. I am sixty years old, with
a bad heart, and I dont't want a sailboat, although they certainly
have their place.

Casady

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:59:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Never mind the boat won't sail

The old lady might be happy with a decent powerboat, and you don't
need high speed or big thirsty engine[s]. If you can install them low
enough to serve as useful ballast for your displacement hull boat,
then by all means have a ton of batteries. I am sixty years old, with
a bad heart, and I dont't want a sailboat, although they certainly
have their place.

I'm sixty years old myself with an excellent heart. I've taken care of
myself. I've eaten right, I've exercised all my long life and still do -
three hours a day competitive cycle training. I'm on pace to have more
than 10,000 miles this year. I can do a 40K individual time trial in
under 62 minutes. I'm not fat. 5'10" at 160 pounds. My resting heart
rate is 35-40bpm. My max heart rate is 170bpm. My VO2 max is 75 ml/kg. I
can pedal for hours at 85 to 95% of my max heart rate. I can sprint my
up to 40mph on a level road with calm winds. I've never smoked. Never
will.

I can sail single-handed and can handle my ground tackle without
windlass or winch. I can swim for miles and swim fast up to my boat's
bow when it's anchored, pop up out of the water and grab the bow pulpit
and swing myself up on deck using it. I can run, jump eat good meals
without suffering from heartburn or what's that other overeater's
disorder?? Oh yeah, acid reflux. You people who live with 'bad hearts'
have done it to yourselves. You never took care of yourself. You can't
expect to be healthy unless you live a healthy lifestyle. That includes
eating right and exercising. That's another area where women are bad for
you. Most of them kill you with the food they cook for you. All
saturated fats and sugars and cholesterol.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:13:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

You people who live with 'bad hearts'
have done it to yourselves. You never took care of yourself. You can't
expect to be healthy unless you live a healthy lifestyle. That includes
eating right and exercising.

All of which has **** all to do with a leaking valve. It needs to be
replaced. It sure as hell was not caused by a bad diet. Or lack of
exercise. Actually, it seems to be a birth defect. Bad luck they call
it. Luckily for you this USENET where jumping to conclusions is not
often fatal.

Casady

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:13:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

You people who live with 'bad hearts'
have done it to yourselves. You never took care of yourself. You can't
expect to be healthy unless you live a healthy lifestyle. That
includes
eating right and exercising.

All of which has **** all to do with a leaking valve. It needs to be
replaced. It sure as hell was not caused by a bad diet. Or lack of
exercise. Actually, it seems to be a birth defect. Bad luck they call
it. Luckily for you this USENET where jumping to conclusions is not
often fatal.

Casady


As if you, in your weakened state, can back up your threats.

Birth defect my aching ass. If you've had it since birth and haven't had
it fixed then you sure aren't taking care of yourself which is exactly
my point.

Here's some information you might be interested in:

There are a number of possible causes of heart valve disease. These
include:
1) rheumatic fever during childhood - this disease is no longer
common in the UK but still affects people in developing countries
2) a "congenital deformity" which means that you were born with an
abnormal valve
3) coronary artery disease - when a blockage occurs in the arteries
that supply blood to your heart it can damage the valve
4) a disease called cardiomyopathy - when the heart muscle becomes
thickened or dilated it can obstruct blood flow age - as you get older,
the valves become less flexible, stretched or torn

I bet you're fat, don't exercise, have high cholesterol and probably
smoke - all the common traits of men today. Your coronary arteries are
undoubtedly restricted or blocked by cholesterol which is the direct
result of improper diet or failure to medicate if your body produces too
much cholesterol in spite of a proper diet.

What's your height and weight?

Wilbur Hubbard

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:37:13 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Richard Casady" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:13:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

You people who live with 'bad hearts'
have done it to yourselves. You never took care of yourself. You can't
expect to be healthy unless you live a healthy lifestyle. That
includes
eating right and exercising.

All of which has **** all to do with a leaking valve. It needs to be
replaced. It sure as hell was not caused by a bad diet. Or lack of
exercise. Actually, it seems to be a birth defect. Bad luck they call
it. Luckily for you this USENET where jumping to conclusions is not
often fatal.

Casady


As if you, in your weakened state, can back up your threats.

Birth defect my aching ass. If you've had it since birth and haven't had
it fixed then you sure aren't taking care of yourself which is exactly
my point.

Here's some information you might be interested in:

There are a number of possible causes of heart valve disease. These
include:
1) rheumatic fever during childhood - this disease is no longer
common in the UK but still affects people in developing countries
2) a "congenital deformity" which means that you were born with an
abnormal valve
3) coronary artery disease - when a blockage occurs in the arteries
that supply blood to your heart it can damage the valve
4) a disease called cardiomyopathy - when the heart muscle becomes
thickened or dilated it can obstruct blood flow age - as you get older,
the valves become less flexible, stretched or torn

I bet you're fat, don't exercise, have high cholesterol and probably
smoke - all the common traits of men today. Your coronary arteries are
undoubtedly restricted or blocked by cholesterol which is the direct
result of improper diet or failure to medicate if your body produces too
much cholesterol in spite of a proper diet.

What's your height and weight?

Wilbur Hubbard

If you go to Richard's site, you can see pictures of him. He's skinny as a
rail
and obviously a leftover from the health concious 60's vegetarian
movement. Has
a beard that the guys in ZZ Top would die for. He's slightly pigeon toed,
and
I'll bet he had vision problems as a child that may have required
corrective
surgery. This all fits a cretain type of borth defect, and my guesss is
that he
probably has a slight gurgle from a prolapsed mitral valve. Yes, he could
get it
fixed, but if it isn't presenting any immediate problems, the surgery
presents
more risk than the condition. Most people with this condition do not have
any
corrective heart surgery and lead a normal and long life.



Ha! So now our resident troll is interning as a doctor. Too fricking
precious for words. "That's DOCTOR Craptain Kneel to you, scumbag!" rofl

wrote in message
...
If you go to Richard's site, you can see pictures of him. He's skinny
as a rail
and obviously a leftover from the health concious 60's vegetarian
movement. Has
a beard that the guys in ZZ Top would die for. He's slightly pigeon
toed, and
I'll bet he had vision problems as a child that may have required
corrective
surgery. This all fits a cretain type of borth defect, and my guesss
is that he
probably has a slight gurgle from a prolapsed mitral valve. Yes, he
could get it
fixed, but if it isn't presenting any immediate problems, the surgery
presents
more risk than the condition. Most people with this condition do not
have any
corrective heart surgery and lead a normal and long life.


I Googled him and found what I think is his site. Just a couple
pictures, one with a cruise ship in the background. He doesn't look
overweight at least so I have to retract that assumption. He does look
malnourished (skinny arms) and if he's a vegetarian that stands to
reason. People need animal protein to be healthy. He mentioned he had a
wife and that may be a contributing factor to his heart valve
malfunction. Doesn't look like he smokes because there's no noticeable
yellowing of his beard around his mouth. Looks like he might have a bit
of extra fat around the waistline. But, actually not a bad looking
specimen of a man. Far different than I had pictured him.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:59:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

As an aside, the first Farr 40 my wife saw didn't impress her one
little bit. No back on the cockpit and a stupid little one burner
stove?

Women are the primary reason why so many sailboats today are such poor
excuses as boats. The little woman does not have any idea about what
things should take priority. About the difference between a good boat
and a poor boat. To women a big apartment-size galley is a must have.
And a big bathroom with hot shower and vanity and lots of lights for
putting on make-up. Also a very large dinette is a must so she can cook
and entertain. And a refrigerator/freezer (stand up, of course).

Never mind the boat won't sail. Never mind the cockpit's impossible
large. Never mind the tankage puts the boat well below her lines. Never
mind you can't get to the motor because kitchen cabinets are built all
around it. Never mind you have to ship two thousand pounds of batteries
and inverters to run her blow dryer, clothes dryer, and microwave. Never
mind all those large dangerous windows she's just got to have so it
looks like a house from inside. Nope, just built a boat like a floating
apartment and the women will say. "That's the one I want." You know
what's really more disgraceful than this? It's the man who knows he's
buying a piece of crap but does it anyway just to please the little
woman.

Wilbur Hubbard

Willie, you know so little about boats that it is very difficult to
discuss them with you.

I mentioned in my post that this was a Farr 40, which is one of the
most successful boats that have ever been designed,

It is an all out racing boat.

It has an open cockpit, nearly a third of the length of the boat to
give the helmsman and rope handlers plenty of room.

It has a small galley because these people are racing, not eating
gourmet meals and extra equipment makes the boat weigh more.

There are large areas of the deck where carbon fiber is used and they
don't paint these areas -- to save weight.

The running back stays have the cover stripped off the kevlar core
from just above the height that a crew member can reach up to the mast
because the cover has weight that isn't needed and as one of the crew
said, "that cover missing up there is equal to one more man sitting on
the rail.

Their battery bank is just large enough to keep the nav lights and
instruments going for the length of the race.

The tanks are as small as possible and in the better crewed boats the
length of the race X an adequate amount of water per man per day is
all that is carried.

The better crews also weigh each man's gear before they bring it
aboard and if you are over weight you take out enough to get the load
down to the limit - say, 5 pounds - or they don't load your bag.

But then, as Malcolm Forbes said, "The dumbest people I know are those
who know it all."



You must have some rather odd fetishes as you seem to like to put your
foot in your mouth so much.

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:59:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Women are the primary reason why so many sailboats today are such poor
excuses as boats. The little woman does not have any idea about what
things should take priority. About the difference between a good boat
and a poor boat. To women a big apartment-size galley is a must have.
And a big bathroom with hot shower and vanity and lots of lights for
putting on make-up. Also a very large dinette is a must so she can cook
and entertain. And a refrigerator/freezer (stand up, of course).

Wilbur Hubbard

Willie, you know so little about boats that it is very difficult to
discuss them with you.

He knows even less about women, though how that could even be possible
eludes me.