"Joe" wrote

I have to agree with others Roger.

Well, good thing it isn't a vote. You're all all wet on this one.

Offering to help is wonderful. Forcing it on someone after a polite decline
is obnoxious and unhelpful. Being ****ed off that an offer of help is
declined is juvenile.

The stanchions are not going to rip off but avoiding unnecessary straining
and abuse is imporant to being sure they will hold up when you need them.
Even if they did break, fixing them after they have saved someones life is
one thing; after some gibboni has exercised his ignorance and juvenile
insistance on them is another. They are strong enough to keep a falling
person aboard.

Surely you jest about training young crew to deal with adults who barge into
the process. This isn't a large sail training vessel (something with which
I have a fair amount of experience). It's just me with a couple of sons who
really aren't into it all that much and don't want to be "trained". It was
a rare moment that they wanted to be part of operating a boat they know I
single hand frequently and this fellow's social ineptness squandered the
opportunity.

I can live with a fellow whose feelings are this easily hurt thinking I'm a
jerk.

--
Roger Long

On Aug 13, 10:38 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Joe" wrote



I have to agree with others Roger.

Well, good thing it isn't a vote. You're all all wet on this one.

Offering to help is wonderful. Forcing it on someone after a polite decline
is obnoxious and unhelpful.

Yes it is, but why compound the problem with a bad attitude. Perhaps
he mistakenly thought you were about to scratch your gel coat and
wanted to be your hero.

Being ****ed off that an offer of help is
declined is juvenile.

Depends on your tone in declining Roger.

The stanchions are not going to rip off but avoiding unnecessary straining
and abuse is imporant to being sure they will hold up when you need them.
Even if they did break, fixing them after they have saved someones life is
one thing; after some gibboni has exercised his ignorance and juvenile
insistance on them is another. They are strong enough to keep a falling
person aboard.

If you say so Roger.
Most equipment I have aboard that starts with the word "life" has to
be the best maintained equipment aboard my vessel. If I have any
question as to its sea-worthyness I stop everything else and focus on
getting that right. Half assed is not good enough.


Surely you jest about training young crew to deal with adults who barge into
the process.

I'm not joking. You're the Captain and should instruct your crew on
everything you might encounter while docking. I always have a meeting
with new crew and tell each one what I expect them to do when we dock.
Maybe with a better understanding of what to expect your teen boys
might be more into it. If the dockflys get to thick on landing, you
need to make some nice heavy monkey's fist and teach the kids how to
clear the docks with em. You could knock the BFF off the dock and
still be his friend.


This isn't a large sail training vessel (something with which
I have a fair amount of experience). It's just me with a couple of sons who
really aren't into it all that much and don't want to be "trained".

Well I guess a tour in the Navy is out for them. Too bad.

If someones not willing to learn, (not trained like a monkey) I do
not want them aboard.

It was
a rare moment that they wanted to be part of operating a boat they know I
single hand frequently and this fellow's social ineptness squandered the
opportunity.

Sounds like it's going to be rarer then ever now.

I can live with a fellow whose feelings are this easily hurt thinking I'm a
jerk.


Roger that!

Here is a poem for you Roger.

Read it to your boys.

[IF]

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!


--Rudyard Kipling

Joe


--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
One of the most essential aspects of helping is, BEING ABLE TO TAKE A
HINT!, for crying out loud. It seems quite unfair that I'm going to be
branded as an asshole by this fellow and his dockmates just because he
couldn't let it go after three polite brush offs. At that level of
communication, how is he going to be able to help me dock?

And, he tried to stop the boat by pushing hard on the top of the lifeline
stanchion because he thought it should stop a couple feet earlier in the
slip than I did. Someday after I have time to pull major parts of the
interior out, the stanchion bases will be strong enough for this abuse but
I'm not there yet.

--
Roger Long



He's one guy, not a crowd. Most people judge for themselves, especially
sailors. If they're sailors, and you conduct yourself properly, he will
remain one voice among many.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
One of the most essential aspects of helping is, BEING ABLE TO TAKE A
HINT!, for crying out loud. It seems quite unfair that I'm going to be
branded as an asshole by this fellow and his dockmates just because he
couldn't let it go after three polite brush offs. At that level of
communication, how is he going to be able to help me dock?

And, he tried to stop the boat by pushing hard on the top of the lifeline
stanchion because he thought it should stop a couple feet earlier in the
slip than I did. Someday after I have time to pull major parts of the
interior out, the stanchion bases will be strong enough for this abuse
but I'm not there yet.

--
Roger Long



He's one guy, not a crowd. Most people judge for themselves, especially
sailors. If they're sailors, and you conduct yourself properly, he will
remain one voice among many.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




And drunks being drunks, chances are he won't remember the incident at all
by now. Or will be utterly embarrassed by it.

Joe wrote in news:1187012541.969538.271430@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:


Joe
Have the worlds best oyster knife... will travel

Hee hee....our kinda boater...(c;

Charleston City Marina, Charleston, SC.
If you got one of those wimpy AC power connectors, be sure to bring the
big adapters. 200A? No problemo...(c
Ask Skip how nice it is...and expensive. Skip was paying $100/day on the
Megadock for his 45'...er, ah....46' boat, a wide, floating concrete dock
the big ships tie up to. We're on the other end a half mile from where
he was tied up. It's a big place. Even the big rest room building
floats, here, clean and nicely air conditioned. The 8 shower rooms are
all separate from the heads, as is the laundry. Tired of walking the
docks? Just flag down a dockhand in a golf cart for a free ride.

The seafood place imports crabs when the local market is closed up, so we
always have good crabs and oysters and shrimp, etc.











These *******s keep calling me so I'm feeding them to the spambots.
--
Sunrise Communications
1374 E. Republic Rd.
Springfield, MO 65804
866-483-1228
417-886-7091
http://www.sunrisecommunicationsinc.com/
877-842-3210
866-842-3278
United Healthcare
http://www.unitedhealthcareonline.com/

Joe wrote in news:1187015440.449612.100140
@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

Had he snapped off your weak lifeline
stanchions it might have been a blessing in disquise. Rather have him
rip it off it at the dock, than some big clumsey teen doing it at sea
as he goes over the side.


I was thinking the same thing. Move those lifelines way up on the list of
things to get fixed, FIRST.

Retrieving dead kids while trying to think of what you're going to say to a
grieving mother is a great excuse to get them fixed NOW, not later.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
One of the most essential aspects of helping is, BEING ABLE TO TAKE A
HINT!, for crying out loud. It seems quite unfair that I'm going to be
branded as an asshole by this fellow and his dockmates just because he
couldn't let it go after three polite brush offs. At that level of
communication, how is he going to be able to help me dock?

And, he tried to stop the boat by pushing hard on the top of the
lifeline stanchion because he thought it should stop a couple feet
earlier in the slip than I did. Someday after I have time to pull major
parts of the interior out, the stanchion bases will be strong enough for
this abuse but I'm not there yet.

--
Roger Long



He's one guy, not a crowd. Most people judge for themselves, especially
sailors. If they're sailors, and you conduct yourself properly, he will
remain one voice among many.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




And drunks being drunks, chances are he won't remember the incident at all
by now. Or will be utterly embarrassed by it.

I'm astonished by how often this is true... at least the former.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

"Roger Long" wrote in message
.. .

One of the most essential aspects of helping is, BEING ABLE TO TAKE A
HINT!, for crying out loud. It seems quite unfair that I'm going to be
branded as an asshole by this fellow and his dockmates just because he
couldn't let it go after three polite brush offs. At that level of
communication, how is he going to be able to help me dock?

And, he tried to stop the boat by pushing hard on the top of the
lifeline stanchion because he thought it should stop a couple feet
earlier in the slip than I did. Someday after I have time to pull major
parts of the interior out, the stanchion bases will be strong enough for
this abuse but I'm not there yet.

--
Roger Long



He's one guy, not a crowd. Most people judge for themselves, especially
sailors. If they're sailors, and you conduct yourself properly, he will
remain one voice among many.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




And drunks being drunks, chances are he won't remember the incident at all
by now. Or will be utterly embarrassed by it.


I'm astonished by how often this is true... at least the former.




In ddition, I'm astonished by how often people seem to think a boat
won't float without alcohol...

"Joe" wrote the following stuff that I replied to
while waiting for a call back from Ms. Manners

Yes it is, but why compound the problem with a bad attitude. Perhaps
he mistakenly thought you were about to scratch your gel coat and
wanted to be your hero.

Depends on your tone in declining Roger.

Boy, I'm glad I don't have to deal with you except in a newsgroup where I
can decide when I feel like a ****ing contest

Why would you jump to the bad attitude conclusions? There must have been
dozens of times this summer that I've called out the same thing and the
would be helper has smiled, waved, and gone gratefully back to their beer.
It was the other fellow who was behaving differently this time.

Many on the dock now know I like the satisfaction and practice of doing it
myself. It's part of the enjoyment of single handing. A couple have even
said, "It's fun to watch you do that so smoothly." There was also the windy
day when gratefully accepted the help that prevented me from having to rig a
set of lines to hold the boat off the dock during departure.

Most equipment I have aboard that starts with the word "life" has to
be the best maintained equipment aboard my vessel. If I have any
question as to its sea-worthyness I stop everything else and focus on
getting that right. Half assed is not good enough.

And Larry , who also jumped to the conclusion that the lifelines (wires
replaced this year) must be junk because I don't want people heaving on
them:

Another broad conclusion leap. The stanchions are bolted through 3/4 inch
of fiberglass with aluminum backing plates. One is slightly bent so I know
they'll give before they come out of the deck. Part of maintaining any
safety critical structure with the tough engineering geometry of a lifeline
stanchion is not subjecting it unnecessary strains. I'd like to put larger
backing blocks under them someday, not because I have any worry about their
failing to keep a person aboard, but because I won't have to worry about
dockside helpers and other such things. This is being typed by a designer
of boats, sailboat rigs (up to a 170 foot full rigged ship), and other
marine structures so I slightly resent the implication that I'm sailing
around willing to scatter children and friends randomly across the waters of
the world because I don't understand my stanchion base


I'm not joking. You're the Captain and should instruct your crew on
everything you might encounter while docking. I always have a meeting
with new crew and tell each one what I expect (blah blah)

Do you have kids? If I subjected them to a lecture like that before every
short daysail, they would sail with me even less than the do now. Your
comments make sense for a large vessel starting a cruise. The fact is, I
don't need ANY help or participation in handling this boat. Any
participation in things like docking and sail handling is strictly for the
guests enjoyment.

Fun sparring with you but I've got to do something more productive.

Hmm, Ms. Manners never called back. I'll have to send her an email.

--
Roger Long

He's one guy, not a crowd. Most people judge for themselves, especially
sailors. If they're sailors, and you conduct yourself properly, he will
remain one voice among many.


I agree with this. In a marina I once stayed in, this liveaboard who
knew EVERYONE in the marina was bad mouthing this one new sailor who
pulled in on his dock. He was one of those liveaboards who was
always around. A beer in one hand and a Marlboro in the
other,,,,always. Anyway most of the sailors knew it for what it was.
I met the guy, turned out to be a super friendly, down to earth guy
not the arrogant asshole that the toad said he was. People judge for
themselves. Of course the power boat crowd believed him but they don't
matter. I don't talk to the powerboat crowd anyway.