On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 07:58:05 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

The jury is out for me on additives. A yard manager with a lot of
credibility told me not to put anything in my fuel so I didn't for two
years. Then, I had just a few hiccups in an otherwise smooth running engine
with a nearly empty tank and began to find alge in the filter bowl. I put
in the StarTon and the bowl filled up with green stuff and the filter turned
green black although the engine ran fine. One tank of fuel after the filter
change, the bowl is clear. It certainly looks as if stuff was flushed out
of the tank that would otherwise be building up. Keeping it moving through
to the filter in smaller amounts instead of building up so that a big glob
gets sucked up in rough seas, which is when it invariably happens, seems
like a good idea.

Fuel isues on a commercial boat are very different than pleasure
craft. Commercial boats are in use almost every day, rarely sitting
around idle for any length of time. They are constantly taking on
fresh fuel with very high turnover rates.

Pleasure craft are almost totally the opposite with infrequent usage
for the most part. As a result fuel sits around in the tank for long
periods of time and even trace amounts of moisture become a breeding
ground for diesel bugs. Check the archives of the "Trawlers and
Trawlering" (T & T) mailing list. Fuel conditioning, fuel polishing
and filtration are *very* hot topics.

Google search -- site:samurai.com fuel filters

or fuel polishing, fuel conditioning, etc.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:47:52 -0700, Joe
wrote:


A vortex is made in the bowl that helps seperate the water from the
fuel. They work best at full flow as the suspended water has more time
spirling in the vortex and with it's higher specific gravity settles
fast, sort of like panning for gold if you can grab that
concept......
....
Joe
USMM Master# 607529


Well, almost....

A spin component in the fuel passing through a filter helps separate
heavier components, like water and dirt. The faster the flow rate,
the faster the spin.
That means the dwell time in the filter is SHORTER but more effective
for faster flow.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:41:25 -0400, "Leanne" wrote:


If you had flown with me, you have seen me visually check the fuel in the
tanks and then make sure the caps were tight. Then
do the sumps and the gascolator, which is usually the lowest point in the
fuel system.. It is a standard pre-flight procedure.

Leanne

What she said.
Leaving a cap off can spoil your whole day - as fuel spills out
(on some airframes)

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

On Jul 30, 10:23 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
I wonder also if this flow issue factors into the filter size debate that
has gone on here an other places. 2 micron filters would reduce the flow
rate and thus the effectiveness of the water separation. In a situation
where you were just barely getting enough water out of the fuel, passing
some particles on the the secondary filter(s) might be important. Also, if
filters are operating close to maximum flow, they won't be able to hold as
much before needing replacement. Secondary filters, which are not also
called on to separate water, would then be the best place to deal with the
finer particles.

In a situation like mine, where water is an insignificant problem, the
smallest filter I can buy is way oversize for the optimum flow rate, and the
secondary is a real bitch to change out, continuing to run 2 micron elements
in the primary makes sense to me.

What do you think, Joe?

--
Roger Long

Seems your additive is making the alge smaller, and water particles
smaller, so I'd stick with finer filters. The alge growth is not
effected much by water in the fuel. Your problem is due to fuel
sitting to long in the tank and degrading. Todays diesel is far more
unstable than it was 15-20 years ago due to all the catalytic cracking
to squeeze more out of a barrel of crude.

What we call alge is really tar and wax ect..ect..seperating from the
light oil and forming globs. Best thing you can do is use your fuel up
asap, or install a polishing system.

I'd suggest lots of motor sailing for you.. and a 12 pack of filters.

Joe

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:41:25 -0400, "Leanne" wrote:


If you had flown with me, you have seen me visually check the fuel in the
tanks and then make sure the caps were tight. Then
do the sumps and the gascolator, which is usually the lowest point in the
fuel system.. It is a standard pre-flight procedure.

Leanne

What she said.
Leaving a cap off can spoil your whole day - as fuel spills out
(on some airframes)

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:41:25 -0400, "Leanne" wrote:


If you had flown with me, you have seen me visually check the fuel in the
tanks and then make sure the caps were tight. Then
do the sumps and the gascolator, which is usually the lowest point in the
fuel system.. It is a standard pre-flight procedure.

Leanne

What she said.
Leaving a cap off can spoil your whole day - as fuel spills out
(on some airframes)

Brian Whatcott Altus OK


Before I push the stupid send button again, did you know that that big fan
on the front of the airplane was to keep the pilot cool. If it stops, watch
him sweat....

Leanne

In article ,
David Scheidt wrote:

Roger Long wrote:
:Hmm, no minumum flow rates indicated on the Racor site specifications page
:for water separator filters.

Why would there be? The seperation is done by gravity. Diesel floats
on water, so the water collects on the bottom of the bowl, where it
can be drained out the handy valve on the bottom.

Actually, that isn't quite the case. In a modern Full Flow Diesel/Water
Seperator Fuel Filters, the water comes out on the Input side of the
Filter Surface, and then gravity moves it down into the Bowl at the
bottom of the Input Side of the Housing. If you hook the Canister
up backwards, the water moves to the bottom of the inside of the Filter
and saturates the filter material, as more water builds up, untill
the Filter plugs with water completely. At that point you don't get
any fuel flow at all.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article .com,
Joe wrote:

If it was not a problem to the engine, then why did they not use
water injection full time? Seems the B-50 used more morden engines as
well, and the B-50 has more than one engine to save yer butt if others
fail.

You may be correct, I heard that second hand from a WWII pilot a very
long time ago and was very intrigued by the process. I'm not an
aviator or mechanic. Regardless.. I want no water passing through my
injectors. Imagine shutting down with a drop of water inside the
injector... shutter...

Joe

All this talk of "Water Injection" during WWII, was for Fighter Aircraft
and Combat Flying, where the only way to win was to Out HosrePower the
opposition, and that required Water Injection into High Preformance
AvGas Fueled Aircraft Engines, like the Rolls/Merlins and Allisons
used in Spitfires, and P51D's. Water Injection gained about 10% increase
in HorsePower with a noticable reduction in Service Life. Engines
Service Lives for these type Engines were in the SUB 1K Hours, and for
every 1 minute of "Water Injection" you would lose around 5 Hours of
Service Life. Water Injection was called "Full Military Boost Power"
and that really meant "Balls to the Wall, No ****, if I don't do it, that
guy is going to Shot my Ass out of the Sky". If you need that kind of
power, for a 1/2 hour Dogfight, your engine was basically JUNK when you
limped Home, BUT you were still ALIVE. Ever wonder why the shipped
replacement engines overseas at a rate of 5:1 to new aircraft. That's
Why.

Now with all that said, this discussion has absolutly NOTHING to do with
Water in Diesel Fuel, in Marine Diesel Engines. Apple's and Banana's...
High Preformance AvGas Fueled Aircraft engines / Diesel Fueled Marine
Diesel engines with mostly Indirect Fuel Injection. Again, Apple's and
Banana's...

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:05:22 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

....
All this talk of "Water Injection" during WWII, was for Fighter Aircraft
and Combat Flying, where the only way to win was to Out HosrePower the
opposition, and that required Water Injection into High Preformance
AvGas Fueled Aircraft Engines, like the Rolls/Merlins and Allisons
used in Spitfires, and P51D's. Water Injection gained about 10% increase
in HorsePower with a noticable reduction in Service Life. Engines
Service Lives for these type Engines were in the SUB 1K Hours, and for
every 1 minute of "Water Injection" you would lose around 5 Hours of
Service Life. Water Injection was called "Full Military Boost Power"
and that really meant "Balls to the Wall, No ****, if I don't do it, that
guy is going to Shot my Ass out of the Sky". If you need that kind of
power, for a 1/2 hour Dogfight, your engine was basically JUNK when you
limped Home, BUT you were still ALIVE. Ever wonder why the shipped
replacement engines overseas at a rate of 5:1 to new aircraft. That's
Why.
.....
Bruce in alaska


I got an authentic feeling from Bruce's input, but I seem to recall a
WW11 dogfight might last 3 minutes - and a fighter engine might go 5
to 10 hours before a pull for service.

Brian W

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:41:41 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

David Scheidt wrote:

.... The seperation is done by gravity. Diesel floats
on water, so the water collects on the bottom of the bowl, where it
can be drained out the handy valve on the bottom.

[Bruce]
Actually, that isn't quite the case. ... water comes out on the Input side of the
Filter Surface, and then gravity moves it down into the Bowl at the
bottom of the Input Side of the Housing.
....
Bruce in alaska

David says water collects at the bottom of the bowl.
Bruce says, No, water collects at the bottom of the bowl.

Or did I miss something?

:-)

Brian W