Yep, Our Prime Minister is so far up George Dubbya's butt, all we can
see is the soles of his shoes...

Perhaps we should call him "Scrub Tick" from now on?

On Apr 15, 1:08 am, Peter Hendra wrote:
On 14 Apr 2007 18:02:32 -0700, wrote:

Joe,
Pray forgive my ignorance but is this any difference from Christian
fundamentalists and "extremists"?

Christian fundamentalists do not chop off heads chanting "alla is
great". They do not strap on bombs and kill themselfs to make it to
heaven.., and the do not commit mass murder to expand their religious
ambitions. Lest last time I went to church they did not. But I must
admit it's been awhile.


Is not it their stated aim to ensure that the Message of Christ is
spread to all corners of the world before the "last days"so that God's
Kingdom may be established upon Earth? I am thinking here of such as
Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Pentecostals and
the like with their missionary zeal (with all due respect to their
beliefs and the sincerity with which they hold them).

Don't know.


In twiddling my shortwave radio knobs in order to receive such as the
BBC, I am innundated with what I would consider "Christian
Fundamentalism", often of a strange single leader style, most calling
for monetary donations, and most with American voices and a warped
view of the message of Christ and the Second Coming. Try listening
sometime.

Why? I have no need for organized religion. Most are just in it for
the money. Most are real Elmer Gantrys at work.

If I need grace, or saving, I go sailing.


Islam does not need me to defend it, nor do I feel offended but even a
cursory study of history will show that it is Christianity, not Islam
that has used force, fear and the threat of death to covert people.

True, but that was then.


Again, perhaps it might bear contemplating Jesus's injunction to take
the beam from thine own eye before one takes the mote from thy
brother's.

I'll do that Peter. But remember in the same sermon on the mound
Jesus also said "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither
cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their
feet, and turn again and rend you"

Jesus warns us against two extremes: indifference toward evil and
judgment of others.

I do not need to judge radical islamist jihadist, their action speak
volumes.

Just wondering in my ignorance.....

We all wonder, I wish I had the answers.

Joe


regards
Peter





In nearly all cases, the jihadi terrorists have a patently self-
evident
ambition: to establish a world dominated by Muslims, Islam, and
Islamic law,
the Shari'a. Thier goal is the extension of the Islamic territory
across the globe, and the establishment of a worldwide 'caliphate'
founded on Shari'a law."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Joe wrote:
BIG SNIP

Stop being an asshole Joe. Read your history. The Christian church is drenched in the blood of its
victims down the centuries. For one small example, do you know what the good Christian knights did to
_all_ of the inhabitants of the town of Beziers in th 1200's? There are _other_ examples. So knock
off the ****ing revolting holier-than-thou condemnation of the Islamics who have committed their own
atrocities.

On Apr 15, 9:28 pm, the_bmac wrote:
Joe wrote:

BIG SNIP

Stop being an asshole Joe. Read your history. The Christian church is drenched in the blood of its
victims down the centuries. For one small example, do you know what the good Christian knights did to
_all_ of the inhabitants of the town of Beziers in th 1200's? There are _other_ examples. So knock
off the ****ing revolting holier-than-thou condemnation of the Islamics who have committed their own
atrocities.

Hey Big Mac, go **** yourself after you finish sucking off M. Moore.

If you could comprehend anything written besides the menu at
McDonalds, you would have seen I agreeded that in history Christians
were as ruthless killers as todays jihadist. That was over 800 years
ago douchbag, some people learn from history, have you seen any
christian crusaders or knight templers lately?

Damn Big Mac, if dumb were bricks you would be the great wall of
China.

BTW dip****, I'm not Holier than anyone, but unlike you I can see who
is trying to establish freedom and basic liberty for others, and who
is trying to prevent that.

Joe

On 15 Apr 2007 19:49:39 -0700, "Joe" wrote:

Joe,
At the risk of incurring a flood of what they term in Trinidad as
"Industrial Language" I would like to point out that most people on
the earth really could not care a hoot for what you term as "freedom
and liberty".

It is my view that you as an American have been indoctrinated from
childhood to believe that "Democracy" and your particular style of it
is what the rest of the world is hungering for.

I believe that Alexander Pope's quip "For forms of government, let
fools contest; whichever governs best is best."

Most people that I have met and lived among in countries such as
China, the Middle East and South East Asia, as well as other places
couldn't care less about the right to vote. They merely want good
government and the opportunity to raise their families in peace and
prosperity, educate their children and so on. Voter turn out in many
countries is seldom more than 70%. In Australia if you neglect to vote
you are fined quite heavily. Certainly not a picture of people
clamouring to exercise their "democratic rights".

The Jihadist movement is not about freedom and liberty any more than
the war in Iraq and US foreign policy is about establishing democracy.
The Iraqi war is about control of oil and the US will attempt to stay
there for a very long time. A yachtee from here who was a hawk last
year when I met him has just come back from a contract in Iraq with a
more sober mien. He tells us that the US is definitely there for good.
There are over 30 huge concrete bases and that the US` embassy is on
150 acres - not measures of a temporary nature. He is no longer a
hawk.

If it were about establishing freedom, why not attack Saudi Arabia
which is an oppressive regime with no right to vote at all? Or all the
other non democratic countries that the US is into bed with? Central
and South American politics as well as other places have a history of
the US supporting oppressive non-democratic regimes and aiding the
overthrown of democratically elected governments. This is not
anti-American propaganda - look at your own government information and
such as the contra deal.

Benjamin Franklin foretold that the US system of democracy as
established by him and the other founding fathers would eventually
fail. It amazes me just what Americans do not know about their
history, a lot of which is mythical such as the origin of
Thanksgiving. The information is freely available

Personally, I wonder if you really do have the liberty you claim and
which your system keeps telling you that you have and which is
superior to that of all other nations. A great many of you sound
rather like the young Chinese Red Guards I met years ago - parroting
what has been put into your heads without any thinking. A lot of what
you did have you gave away with your submissive acceptance of the
Patriot Act because your leaders told you it was necessary.

But then only Communists brainwash, don't they?

Democracy requires citizens who think and question.

Enough. This is far from cruising.

kindest regards
Peter



BTW dip****, I'm not Holier than anyone, but unlike you I can see who
is trying to establish freedom and basic liberty for others, and who
is trying to prevent that.

Joe

Joe wrote:

snip

morphing to avoid filtering?

let us know when you turn 14.

*plonk*

On Apr 16, 2:27 am, Peter Hendra wrote:

Most people that I have met and lived among in countries such as
China, the Middle East and South East Asia, as well as other places
couldn't care less about the right to vote. They merely want good
government and the opportunity to raise their families in peace and
prosperity, educate their children and so on.

I know many Chinese people now living and working in the USA.

After the 1989 Tiananmen square massacre not many in China dare to
freely speak of such things as voting for a leader.


Voter turn out in many
countries is seldom more than 70%.

Yeah what a shame. Iraq only had a 67% IIRC turnout, but hey, people
were still trying to kill them when they went to the polls.

snip
Democracy requires citizens who think and question.

Enough. This is far from cruising.

Agreeded.

Best Regards,
Joe

kindest regards
Peter