"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 19 Mar 2007 07:21:35 -0700, wrote:

I have been drawn to the idea of buying a boat, because of the
independant lifestyle it brings. Here are some rather ignorant
questions, and I would be very grateful to anyone who takes a few
minutes to answer one or all of them:

a) How big a boat is required to go from New York to England (about
3750nm)?

Far more important than size is your own experience and preparation,
as well as the preparation of the boat. You will get very little
agreement on this question but my personal experience would dictate a
heavily built boat over 40 ft in length. People have done it in far
less, but comfort and relative safety increase with size, all other
things being equal. You need to get *lots* of experience with coastal
cruising and boat maintenance before you even think about crossing an
ocean.

While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built boat over
40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet. There are lots and
lots of people who travel across oceans in boats shorter than 40 ft. It's
not just about the length and full keel; it's also about having the proper
equipment and reinforcing when you have to reinforce. Of course, bigger
tends to be more comfortable.

b) If I wanted to learn more about boating, is there a book available
by someone who captures what it is like to be at sea, and describes
the pros and cons of boat life?

There are lots of books but most do not do a good job describing life
at sea because that doesn't sell books. Forget romantic notions of
idyllic passages. They exist but not as often as you read about.
Being at sea in a small boat is not a walk in the park, and by small
I'm talking about less than 200 feet. Weather forecasts are only
accurate to about 5 days, so any voyage longer than that on open ocean
incurs a high risk and probability of serious storm conditions (winds
over 35 kts, breaking seas over 20 ft high). After a few hours of
that you will want to be someplace else, just about anywhere else.
Boats also require constant maintenance and you will spend a great
deal of time repairing things and improvising, frequently in difficult
conditions.

Read Sailing All Seas by Dwight Long. A small boat, before all the fancy
stuff.

There are definitely weather winds when the chance of getting serious storms
are greatly reduced, but you need to be prepared for the worst. Also,
conversely, keep in mind that most people don't bring enough light wind
sails, thinking I suppose that they'll err on the side of issues with bad
weather. Don't forget your big sails.

c) Do any of you live on your boats?

Counting part time liveaboards (more than 3 or 4 weeks per year),
quite a few.

Some do, some don't. Right now, I don't... 3/4 days per week max right now.
Has it's advantages and disadvantages both ways I suppose.

d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem
to loose half their value in five years.

There are many, many used boats for sale. More supply than demand is
the main reason, coupled with the fact that there are quite a few
people, who for reasons of their own, will only buy new.

I agree.. totally. Kind of like cars... soon as you drive it off the new car
lot, it drops dramatically in value. Used boat purchases aren't quite so
bad.

Thanks in advance,

Terry.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:

While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built
boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet.

I second that. Bigger is more comfortable when you don't have to do
anything like handle sails or dock. Once your butt leaves the seat, bigger
is more strain, more work, more expense, higher probability of hurting
yourself.

I love my 32 footer. The ease of doing everything makes up for a bit more
motion when I'm just hanging on. Less room in port but, how much do you
need?

Maintenance cost and effort go up roughly with the surface area which goes
up roughly with the square of the length. Volume goes up with the cube and
inevitibly gets filled up with stuff that also breaks down and needs to be
worked on.

Keep it simple, keep it inexpensive, and go to really interesting places.

--
Roger Long

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:23:48 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I love my 32 footer. The ease of doing everything makes up for a bit more
motion when I'm just hanging on. Less room in port but, how much do you
need?

I like boats in that size range also, owned a 34 for many years and it
was a great boat for it's designed purpose. The few times that I took
it off shore however we got the snot beat out of us in anything over
20 kts or so.

The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not
coastal cruising.

Wayne.B wrote:

The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not
coastal cruising.

Oh, so he was. Something about the "new to boating" in the subject line
made me overlook that.

Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer and she
probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does now.

Finances are key to that independent lifestyle he talks about. Boats eat up
money fast as we all know only too well. Unless he has a lot of independent
income, holding down the money drain by going small might be worth more
discomfort in big seas.
--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:

The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not
coastal cruising.

Oh, so he was. Something about the "new to boating" in the subject
line made me overlook that.

Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get advice
will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right questions, 2)
the right people.

Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer
and she probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow
does now.

Donna Lange at least had a clue about what constitutes a seaworthy
boat. Doesn't she sail a double ender Southern Cross? And, according to
her website, she's not done with her circumnavigation just yet
http://www.donnalange.com/statusupdate.html

Finances are key to that independent lifestyle he talks about. Boats
eat up money fast as we all know only too well. Unless he has a lot
of independent income, holding down the money drain by going small
might be worth more discomfort in big seas.

Finances are, indeed, important. But a seaworthy boat is more important.
Better to spend the farm getting a decent boat even if you have to work
your way around like old Joshua Slocum did. As for the OP. Forget about
him/her. Just another ignorant dreamer without the right stuff. That's
evident just from the ignorant questions in the short post. You can tell
a lot about a person just by how the questions, even if answered in
great detail, don't comprise a coherent body of thought or a particular
direction.

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:

The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not
coastal cruising.

Oh, so he was. Something about the "new to boating" in the subject
line made me overlook that.

Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get advice
will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right questions, 2)
the right people.

Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer
and she probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow
does now.

Donna Lange at least had a clue about what constitutes a seaworthy
boat. Doesn't she sail a double ender Southern Cross? And, according to
her website, she's not done with her circumnavigation just yet
http://www.donnalange.com/statusupdate.html

Finances are key to that independent lifestyle he talks about. Boats
eat up money fast as we all know only too well. Unless he has a lot
of independent income, holding down the money drain by going small
might be worth more discomfort in big seas.

Finances are, indeed, important. But a seaworthy boat is more important.
Better to spend the farm getting a decent boat even if you have to work
your way around like old Joshua Slocum did. As for the OP. Forget about
him/her. Just another ignorant dreamer without the right stuff. That's
evident just from the ignorant questions in the short post. You can tell
a lot about a person just by how the questions, even if answered in
great detail, don't comprise a coherent body of thought or a particular
direction.

I don't think you can tell much about the person by the questions they
ask, except for how little they know. Part of the difficulty of learning
anything, no matter how smart you are, is asking the right questions.

Basically everyone who is starting to learn something is virtually
guaranteed to ask some stupid questions.

It's people who refuse to ask stupid questions who stay stupid.

Stephen

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get advice
will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right questions, 2)
the right people.

It's unfortunate that you posted such a stupid, irrelevant response. It
completely discredited anything else of worth you might have said.

As far as a response to the original poster's questions, we all have our
opinions based on more or less experience. I happen to think that my
Tayana 37, a moderately heavy displacement cutter makes a great
compromise between the comforts (and costs) of a larger boat and the
tight quarters & uncomfortable motions of a smaller and less expensive
boat for the live-aboard, ocean crossing cruiser. I've done deliveries
of larger boats, but never lived aboard them. I have lived aboard both
my previous 30' coastal cruiser as well as the Tayana for extended
periods and the difference in comfort that the 7 extra feet of overall
length and 14,000 extra lb.s of displacement makes is huge.

Dan Best

"Dan Best" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get
advice will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right
questions, 2) the right people.

It's unfortunate that you posted such a stupid, irrelevant response.
It completely discredited anything else of worth you might have said.

As far as a response to the original poster's questions, we all have
our opinions based on more or less experience. I happen to think that
my Tayana 37, a moderately heavy displacement cutter makes a great
compromise between the comforts (and costs) of a larger boat and the
tight quarters & uncomfortable motions of a smaller and less expensive
boat for the live-aboard, ocean crossing cruiser. I've done
deliveries of larger boats, but never lived aboard them. I have lived
aboard both my previous 30' coastal cruiser as well as the Tayana for
extended periods and the difference in comfort that the 7 extra feet
of overall length and 14,000 extra lb.s of displacement makes is huge.

Dan Best

The Tayana 37 is a fine voyaging boat. But, don't credit all her great
seakeeping characteristics solely upon her displacement. It's more a
matter of a good overall design. Usually good vessels have a respected
naval architect who draws the lines and integrates the package. Check
out this comparison between a Southern Cross 31 and a Tayana 37.

Performance Comparison

LOA Southern Cross 31 31 Tayana 37 Cutter
36.67

LWL Southern Cross 31 25 Tayana 37 Cutter 31

Beam Southern Cross 31 9.5 Tayana 37 Cutter
11.5

Displacement Southern Cross 31 13600 Tayana 37 Cutter 22500

Sail Area Southern Cross 31 447 Tayana 37 Cutter 861

Capsize Ratio Southern Cross 31 1.59 Tayana 37 Cutter 1.63

Hull Speed Southern Cross 31 6.7 Tayana 37 Cutter 7.46

SA/Disp Southern Cross 31 12.55 Tayana 37 Cutter 17.28

Disp/LWL Southern Cross 31 389 Tayana 37 Cutter 337

LWL/BeamSouthern Cross 31 2.63 Tayana 37 Cutter 2.7

Motion Comfort Southern Cross 31 38.8 Tayana 37 Cutter 40.78

Pounds/InchSouthern Cross 31 849 Tayana 37 Cutter 1274

Note in particular the motion comfort, capsize ratio and hull speeds.
Not as much difference as one would think. One thing of note is the
SA/Disp ratio which shows the Tayana with her cutter rig carries more
sail. But who carries both head sails on a cutter in anything but light
winds? Another thing that's not included is price. Probably for half the
cost of a Tayana 37 one can buy a Southern Cross 31. If one is
interested in economical and comfortable cruising, the Southern Cross is
the better compromise. But if money is no object then the Tayana wins.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:44:47 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer and she
probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does now.

I think our requirements go up as we get older and smarter. :-)

It's certainly true in my case. I would have probably taken off in
any thing that floated in my 20s.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:44:47 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer
and she
probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does
now.

I think our requirements go up as we get older and smarter. :-)

It's certainly true in my case. I would have probably taken off in
any thing that floated in my 20s.

It's got nothing to do with age, really. Just IQ. Look at all the idiots
of all ages who buy MacGregor 26's, for example.

Wilbur Hubbard