I have been drawn to the idea of buying a boat, because of the
independant lifestyle it brings. Here are some rather ignorant
questions, and I would be very grateful to anyone who takes a few
minutes to answer one or all of them:

a) How big a boat is required to go from New York to England (about
3750nm)?

b) If I wanted to learn more about boating, is there a book available
by someone who captures what it is like to be at sea, and describes
the pros and cons of boat life?

c) Do any of you live on your boats?

d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem
to loose half their value in five years.

Thanks in advance,

Terry.

On 19 Mar 2007 07:21:35 -0700, wrote:

I have been drawn to the idea of buying a boat, because of the
independant lifestyle it brings. Here are some rather ignorant
questions, and I would be very grateful to anyone who takes a few
minutes to answer one or all of them:

a) How big a boat is required to go from New York to England (about
3750nm)?

Far more important than size is your own experience and preparation,
as well as the preparation of the boat. You will get very little
agreement on this question but my personal experience would dictate a
heavily built boat over 40 ft in length. People have done it in far
less, but comfort and relative safety increase with size, all other
things being equal. You need to get *lots* of experience with coastal
cruising and boat maintenance before you even think about crossing an
ocean.

b) If I wanted to learn more about boating, is there a book available
by someone who captures what it is like to be at sea, and describes
the pros and cons of boat life?

There are lots of books but most do not do a good job describing life
at sea because that doesn't sell books. Forget romantic notions of
idyllic passages. They exist but not as often as you read about.
Being at sea in a small boat is not a walk in the park, and by small
I'm talking about less than 200 feet. Weather forecasts are only
accurate to about 5 days, so any voyage longer than that on open ocean
incurs a high risk and probability of serious storm conditions (winds
over 35 kts, breaking seas over 20 ft high). After a few hours of
that you will want to be someplace else, just about anywhere else.
Boats also require constant maintenance and you will spend a great
deal of time repairing things and improvising, frequently in difficult
conditions.

c) Do any of you live on your boats?

Counting part time liveaboards (more than 3 or 4 weeks per year),
quite a few.

d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem
to loose half their value in five years.

There are many, many used boats for sale. More supply than demand is
the main reason, coupled with the fact that there are quite a few
people, who for reasons of their own, will only buy new.

Thanks in advance,

Terry.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 19 Mar 2007 07:21:35 -0700, wrote:

I have been drawn to the idea of buying a boat, because of the
independant lifestyle it brings. Here are some rather ignorant
questions, and I would be very grateful to anyone who takes a few
minutes to answer one or all of them:

a) How big a boat is required to go from New York to England (about
3750nm)?

Far more important than size is your own experience and preparation,
as well as the preparation of the boat. You will get very little
agreement on this question but my personal experience would dictate a
heavily built boat over 40 ft in length. People have done it in far
less, but comfort and relative safety increase with size, all other
things being equal. You need to get *lots* of experience with coastal
cruising and boat maintenance before you even think about crossing an
ocean.

While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built boat over
40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet. There are lots and
lots of people who travel across oceans in boats shorter than 40 ft. It's
not just about the length and full keel; it's also about having the proper
equipment and reinforcing when you have to reinforce. Of course, bigger
tends to be more comfortable.

b) If I wanted to learn more about boating, is there a book available
by someone who captures what it is like to be at sea, and describes
the pros and cons of boat life?

There are lots of books but most do not do a good job describing life
at sea because that doesn't sell books. Forget romantic notions of
idyllic passages. They exist but not as often as you read about.
Being at sea in a small boat is not a walk in the park, and by small
I'm talking about less than 200 feet. Weather forecasts are only
accurate to about 5 days, so any voyage longer than that on open ocean
incurs a high risk and probability of serious storm conditions (winds
over 35 kts, breaking seas over 20 ft high). After a few hours of
that you will want to be someplace else, just about anywhere else.
Boats also require constant maintenance and you will spend a great
deal of time repairing things and improvising, frequently in difficult
conditions.

Read Sailing All Seas by Dwight Long. A small boat, before all the fancy
stuff.

There are definitely weather winds when the chance of getting serious storms
are greatly reduced, but you need to be prepared for the worst. Also,
conversely, keep in mind that most people don't bring enough light wind
sails, thinking I suppose that they'll err on the side of issues with bad
weather. Don't forget your big sails.

c) Do any of you live on your boats?

Counting part time liveaboards (more than 3 or 4 weeks per year),
quite a few.

Some do, some don't. Right now, I don't... 3/4 days per week max right now.
Has it's advantages and disadvantages both ways I suppose.

d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem
to loose half their value in five years.

There are many, many used boats for sale. More supply than demand is
the main reason, coupled with the fact that there are quite a few
people, who for reasons of their own, will only buy new.

I agree.. totally. Kind of like cars... soon as you drive it off the new car
lot, it drops dramatically in value. Used boat purchases aren't quite so
bad.

Thanks in advance,

Terry.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:

While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built
boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet.

I second that. Bigger is more comfortable when you don't have to do
anything like handle sails or dock. Once your butt leaves the seat, bigger
is more strain, more work, more expense, higher probability of hurting
yourself.

I love my 32 footer. The ease of doing everything makes up for a bit more
motion when I'm just hanging on. Less room in port but, how much do you
need?

Maintenance cost and effort go up roughly with the surface area which goes
up roughly with the square of the length. Volume goes up with the cube and
inevitibly gets filled up with stuff that also breaks down and needs to be
worked on.

Keep it simple, keep it inexpensive, and go to really interesting places.

--
Roger Long

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:23:48 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I love my 32 footer. The ease of doing everything makes up for a bit more
motion when I'm just hanging on. Less room in port but, how much do you
need?

I like boats in that size range also, owned a 34 for many years and it
was a great boat for it's designed purpose. The few times that I took
it off shore however we got the snot beat out of us in anything over
20 kts or so.

The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not
coastal cruising.

Wayne.B wrote:

The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not
coastal cruising.

Oh, so he was. Something about the "new to boating" in the subject line
made me overlook that.

Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer and she
probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does now.

Finances are key to that independent lifestyle he talks about. Boats eat up
money fast as we all know only too well. Unless he has a lot of independent
income, holding down the money drain by going small might be worth more
discomfort in big seas.
--
Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
Capt. JG wrote:

While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built
boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet.

I second that. Bigger is more comfortable when you don't have to do
anything like handle sails or dock. Once your butt leaves the seat,
bigger is more strain, more work, more expense, higher probability of
hurting yourself.

I went from a 32 foot simple boat to singlehanding a heavy 42 foot one
with every system you can imagine. Docking the 42 in a current such as
in Charleston City Marina was a heck of a chore and worrisome too.

If I do it again, it'll be back to simple and smaller. It wasn't like
the 42 was pleasant in a storm AND single handed reefing of a 450 foot
mainsail wasn't for the faint of heart.

-paul

"Capt. JG" wrote in
:

While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built
boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet.
There are lots and lots of people who travel across oceans in boats
shorter than 40 ft. It's not just about the length and full keel; it's
also about having the proper equipment and reinforcing when you have
to reinforce. Of course, bigger tends to be more comfortable.



To go to England, I'd like to try one of those "heavily built" hulls
designed by Roger Long for the research fleets, myself...(c;

(Is that sucking up?....I hope so...(c

Larry
--
Message for Comcrap Internet Customers:
http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c
Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^

Larry wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote in
:

While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built
boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet.
There are lots and lots of people who travel across oceans in boats
shorter than 40 ft. It's not just about the length and full keel; it's
also about having the proper equipment and reinforcing when you have
to reinforce. Of course, bigger tends to be more comfortable.



To go to England, I'd like to try one of those "heavily built" hulls
designed by Roger Long for the research fleets, myself...(c;

The Blanchard 33 that I sailed in heavy waters with in my teens had
extra weight in the keel. We weren't one of the fastest boats around,
but we sure plowed through the heavy seas pretty smoothly. Other than
getting wet, I don't recall anything unpleasant about it. Even the water
in the cockpit wasn't all that unpleasant thanks to foul weather gear.

Stephen

There are many, many used boats for sale. More supply than demand is
the main reason, coupled with the fact that there are quite a few
people, who for reasons of their own, will only buy new.



Only one problem with this; 99% of those used boats have sat for over
a year in the weather with not a damn thing done to them they are
rotting in place and the folks selling them seem to think the boat
gets more valuable with age and decay.

why the heck do you think i keep asking for a boat in trade for
teaching folks to build earthen houses. im gonna spend the cost of a
new boat getting the darn thing sea worthy. i get tired of watching
boats rot at the dock because the owners think it is still worth every
bit of the 12,000 they paid for it ten years ago for the one day
sailing excursion with the kids.

and yes Larry that is probly the best post i've seen in a long time;
and i wish you could post it to crewing sites as well.

(I may be a power boat sailor but ive built a few boats and it hurts
every time i see one rotting due to neglect; while a sailor is trying
to figure out how to get a boat.)
2MT