Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get advice
will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right questions, 2)
the right people.

It's unfortunate that you posted such a stupid, irrelevant response. It
completely discredited anything else of worth you might have said.

As far as a response to the original poster's questions, we all have our
opinions based on more or less experience. I happen to think that my
Tayana 37, a moderately heavy displacement cutter makes a great
compromise between the comforts (and costs) of a larger boat and the
tight quarters & uncomfortable motions of a smaller and less expensive
boat for the live-aboard, ocean crossing cruiser. I've done deliveries
of larger boats, but never lived aboard them. I have lived aboard both
my previous 30' coastal cruiser as well as the Tayana for extended
periods and the difference in comfort that the 7 extra feet of overall
length and 14,000 extra lb.s of displacement makes is huge.

Dan Best

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
It's got nothing to do with age, really. Just IQ. Look at all the idiots
of all ages who buy MacGregor 26's, for example.

Wilbur, you continue to make stupid, generalizing statements. I've
never owned or even sailed a Mac 26, but it serves it's niche quite
well. That that niche is not what I or you are looking for in a boat is
immaterial. This boat is designed to hit a price point and to be used
for a certain type of sailing and apparently does so quite well.
Otherwise, far fewer of them would have been sold. The one owner that I
used to know was quite happy with his.

Dan Best

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Larry,
This is by far the best advice anyone could hear. Congratulations on a
great posting and for taking the time to think about and write these
words to someone you will probably never meet.

You're quite welcome. Some of them bark quite loudly, especially yelling
at the crew, shouting orders, in a race...but they don't hardly ever
bite. Even then, it's all in good fun because Captain Blythe will take
his crew to dinner and party, especially if the terrified crew (plus the
boat's awful handicap) should result in a win!...(c; (It is fun crewing
on a big, slow, clunky cruiser with a big party going on. Other crews
laugh as they easily pass us and wonder why we're all smirking and
smiling. They, obviously, haven't checked the race webpage to find out
what the old, slow girl's handicap is. Hell, in order to beat us, they
have to arrive two DAYS before we do!...(c;


Somehow, from reading your postings when I get near the web over the
past few years I had somehow imagined you to be possibly in your mid
forties. Hell! You are two years older than me.

I'm 61. Cap'n Geoffrey's 68, going on 29 after a few ales. We get along
fabulously. I was introduced to him by another boater I was helping at
the time, as me and the other guy were casually cruising the docks
looking for someone to offer us free beer. We've been friends ever
since.

Cap'n call me. Says, "There's something on the chart table. Can you
figure out how to hook it up? I got it at the Miami Boat Show." "It" is
some new electronic gadget I can easily hook up....of course, assuming we
can find a suitable space to mount its display/input
device/mic/printer/plotter/drafting-table-sized marking device. We might
have to dismount something that's 2 years old the "new" wore off of, but
we'll make it fit. Cap'n is a fine wood craftsman. He's responsible for
the custom cabinetry/mounting of anything new. I'm responsible for its
electronics/electrical integration and software integration.

I KNOW better than to say, "We already have one of these from XXXXXX.
Why do we need two?" He always looks so disappointed, so we have several
chartplotters (Garmin, Raymarine, Yeoman), compasses (B&G, Raymarine
(both the compass sensor and smart heading sensor), GPS (Garmin,
Raymarine WAAS-GPS), etc. As long as I don't have to pull another cable
through the Nav to Helm wireway that's stuffed, I'm fine with it.

The only thing Navy has we don't is weaponry. SHHHH....keep him away
from boatshow weapon salesmen!

Peter, you don't need a boat. There are PLENTY of boats to play
with/on/out of sitting on docks all over. Unless you just HAVE to have a
family cruiser to take the kids out on, something none of the yachties
want on their boats I know, spending all that cash on boats and upkeep is
unnecessary. If you want to cruise around in some really nice yachts,
you need a pleasant captain who, like my friend, would love to have
someone he can trust to get her ready-for-sea...and pilot her most of the
time...so he can enjoy his guests and family...rather than being strapped
to the wheel all the time. I don't have that kind of money. I like my
position aboard.....

NOTHING beats taking the CAPTAIN'S VISA card to West Marine on a Saturday
morning for a "few parts and replenishment spares".....(c;


cheers and thanks
Peter Hendra


Cheers! Boddington's ok?....my favorite.


Larry
--
Message for Comcrap Internet Customers:
http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c
Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^

There are many, many used boats for sale. More supply than demand is
the main reason, coupled with the fact that there are quite a few
people, who for reasons of their own, will only buy new.



Only one problem with this; 99% of those used boats have sat for over
a year in the weather with not a damn thing done to them they are
rotting in place and the folks selling them seem to think the boat
gets more valuable with age and decay.

why the heck do you think i keep asking for a boat in trade for
teaching folks to build earthen houses. im gonna spend the cost of a
new boat getting the darn thing sea worthy. i get tired of watching
boats rot at the dock because the owners think it is still worth every
bit of the 12,000 they paid for it ten years ago for the one day
sailing excursion with the kids.

and yes Larry that is probly the best post i've seen in a long time;
and i wish you could post it to crewing sites as well.

(I may be a power boat sailor but ive built a few boats and it hurts
every time i see one rotting due to neglect; while a sailor is trying
to figure out how to get a boat.)
2MT

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
The Tayana 37 is a fine voyaging boat. But, don't credit all her great
seakeeping characteristics solely upon her displacement. It's more a
matter of a good overall design. Usually good vessels have a respected
naval architect who draws the lines and integrates the package.

An excellent point and I couldn't agree with you more.

Check out this comparison between a Southern Cross 31 and a Tayana 37.

The Southern Cross 31 is a fine boat. Another one in that size range
that I like is the Valiant 32 (watch out for those with severe blister
problems though). The Valiant, like the Tayana happens to be another
Bob Perry design. I guess there's just something about his work that
esthetically appeals to me. Having spent the last two years living on
the Tayana, I'd say that there are certainly things that I'd like to see
be done differently, but by and large, the man knows how to design a
functional live aboard. He's certainly not the only one who can do so
(Brewer, Crealock and many others have designs that are just as good).

In my mind, the size question has more to do with how much volume you
need to be comfortable. Not just in living space, but also in storage
space. My wife and I have often fantasized about how nice it would be
to have something a little larger, say about 42' and a center cockpit
(so we could have a nice aft cabin). We note how wonderful it would be
to have all that extra storage space, a separate living quarters for
when the kids visit us that doesn't entail someone sleeping on the
kitchen table, etc.. But then I think of how much more work it is to
maintain this boat than our 30 footer and imagining how much more work
yet a 42 footer would be and I rapidly become again satisfied that the
Tayana is just about perfect for us.

Were I single handing, I think something in the 30' - 32' range would
probably be just about perfect.

Note in particular the motion comfort,

Not to take away from your other valid points, and my memory could
certainly be faulty about this, but I seem to recall reading an article
somewhere written by Ted Brewer (who developed it) cautioning not to put
too much credence in this index.


Take care - Dan Best

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Larry,
This is by far the best advice anyone could hear. Congratulations on a
great posting and for taking the time to think about and write these
words to someone you will probably never meet.

You're quite welcome. Some of them bark quite loudly, especially yelling
at the crew, shouting orders, in a race...but they don't hardly ever
bite. Even then, it's all in good fun because Captain Blythe will take
his crew to dinner and party, especially if the terrified crew (plus the
boat's awful handicap) should result in a win!...(c; (It is fun crewing
on a big, slow, clunky cruiser with a big party going on. Other crews
laugh as they easily pass us and wonder why we're all smirking and
smiling. They, obviously, haven't checked the race webpage to find out
what the old, slow girl's handicap is. Hell, in order to beat us, they
have to arrive two DAYS before we do!...(c;


Somehow, from reading your postings when I get near the web over the
past few years I had somehow imagined you to be possibly in your mid
forties. Hell! You are two years older than me.

I'm 61. Cap'n Geoffrey's 68, going on 29 after a few ales. We get along
fabulously. I was introduced to him by another boater I was helping at
the time, as me and the other guy were casually cruising the docks
looking for someone to offer us free beer. We've been friends ever
since.

Cap'n call me. Says, "There's something on the chart table. Can you
figure out how to hook it up? I got it at the Miami Boat Show." "It" is
some new electronic gadget I can easily hook up....of course, assuming we
can find a suitable space to mount its display/input
device/mic/printer/plotter/drafting-table-sized marking device. We might
have to dismount something that's 2 years old the "new" wore off of, but
we'll make it fit. Cap'n is a fine wood craftsman. He's responsible for
the custom cabinetry/mounting of anything new. I'm responsible for its
electronics/electrical integration and software integration.

I KNOW better than to say, "We already have one of these from XXXXXX.
Why do we need two?" He always looks so disappointed, so we have several
chartplotters (Garmin, Raymarine, Yeoman), compasses (B&G, Raymarine
(both the compass sensor and smart heading sensor), GPS (Garmin,
Raymarine WAAS-GPS), etc. As long as I don't have to pull another cable
through the Nav to Helm wireway that's stuffed, I'm fine with it.

The only thing Navy has we don't is weaponry. SHHHH....keep him away
from boatshow weapon salesmen!

Peter, you don't need a boat. There are PLENTY of boats to play
with/on/out of sitting on docks all over. Unless you just HAVE to have a
family cruiser to take the kids out on, something none of the yachties
want on their boats I know, spending all that cash on boats and upkeep is
unnecessary. If you want to cruise around in some really nice yachts,
you need a pleasant captain who, like my friend, would love to have
someone he can trust to get her ready-for-sea...and pilot her most of the
time...so he can enjoy his guests and family...rather than being strapped
to the wheel all the time. I don't have that kind of money. I like my
position aboard.....

NOTHING beats taking the CAPTAIN'S VISA card to West Marine on a Saturday
morning for a "few parts and replenishment spares".....(c;


cheers and thanks
Peter Hendra


Cheers! Boddington's ok?....my favorite.


Larry
--
Message for Comcrap Internet Customers:
http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c
Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^

I had a deal somewhat like that for 5 years, although on a more modest
scale.
At some point you just want be be your own captain...especially if you want
to try new cruising grounds and the boat owner is happy with 3 hour cruises
in your harbour.

"Don White" wrote in message
...
I had a deal somewhat like that for 5 years, although on a more modest
scale.
At some point you just want be be your own captain...especially if you
want to try new cruising grounds and the boat owner is happy with 3 hour
cruises in your harbour.

I also had a deal like that on a Cape Dory 36, but the owner got to old for
it, his words, but actually it was all of the maintenance. He sold it and
went smaller to a little Fisher 25 motorsailer. A year later he came up with
cancer and put the boat on the market. I have had my little ship, the
biggest little cruiser, for 11 years now.

Leanne
s/vs. Fundy

"Leanne" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...
I had a deal somewhat like that for 5 years, although on a more modest
scale.
At some point you just want be be your own captain...especially if you
want to try new cruising grounds and the boat owner is happy with 3 hour
cruises in your harbour.

I also had a deal like that on a Cape Dory 36, but the owner got to old
for it, his words, but actually it was all of the maintenance. He sold it
and went smaller to a little Fisher 25 motorsailer. A year later he came
up with cancer and put the boat on the market. I have had my little ship,
the biggest little cruiser, for 11 years now.

Leanne
s/vs. Fundy

My memory is weak... what do you sail these days?
My mini-cruiser.. http://sailquest.com/market/models/spipe.htm

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:53:07 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

But if money is no object then the Tayana wins.

Nonsense. If money is no object the Swan 48 wins.

On 21 Mar 2007 09:56:27 -0700, "Two meter troll"
wrote:

Oh, there are a few true hermits who don't seem to need
money. Their boats look it. More power to them.

A boat is a LOT of WORK!...especially YOUR boat, the one with the clogged
injector, stopped up head, leaky (pick anything that can leak here),
broken (pick anything that can break here). I don't think it's a lot of
freedom, at all.

Doing it my way has a great advantage, the freedom to walk away without
worry. Some times I don't go to the docks for weeks, sometimes months.
I don't HAVE to check on boats I don't own. THAT's freedom!

Larry

I agree with that; however i would wonder how it is with sailboats as
compaired with power boats.
I have owned, leased, or been in charge of, a fishing boat,
exploration boat, research vessel, for a really big part of my adult
life. ya ive learned how to fix almost everything with duct tape and
wire. but then i have abused the boats ive been on to get the job at
hand done. are sail boats really that much more work than an old
30'-50' salmon troller or a 100' king crabber?

Yes Larry, you are right. Boats always need money spending on them.
But then so do cars, houses and lawnmowers, wives, children and
girlfiends. Does anyone record in a profit and loss statement the cost
of a wife? ( Quite possibly they should); or of the money spent on
ones hobby or sport - golf clubs, computer gear, ham rigs and so on.

Though I built my own boat and where possible, repair it myself, when
I have to spend money on it or on things boating related, I don't
begrudge it - I am not a billionaire.


By the way "Two metre troll"
Please enlighten my confusion.
As I am not a native speaker of American English, are the fish your
boats have been used for really 30 to 50 foot long salmon and 100 foot
in span king crabs. Ours don't grow nearly that large.
\
cheers
Peter