On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:00:08 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

My method does rely upon glue (epoxy) between the bulkhead and old tabbing,
clamped together with the bolts and battens

In addition to using epoxy resin (instead of polyester), I recommend
thickening the resin with chopped glass fibers to improve its
strength.

This is a difficult repair without having full access on at least one
side of the bulkhead.

Jere Lull wrote:

I suspect it's like doing glue & nail in woodworking: The nails are
really there only to get a good bond; you could pull them after it's set
up. But you want a really good bond....



Epoxies are not great in peel.

The screws would help prevent that - and act as shear pins.

Screw it....


Ricahrd

In article , "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

So now the question becomes, can you ever make it strong enough
without that access?

How could you ever know how strong it was?

You'll never reach 100% new as-built strength. But even if you did by some
chance, you'll never be able to KNOW exactly how strong the repair is.
You'll have to take her out in progressivly more stressful conditions and
each time there will be that knot in your gut. Will it take 5' seas? 6'
seas? 7' seas pounding for day after day? Even if it does, you'll not
know if the next wave will be the one. You'll crawl around in the bildge
after each short trip looking for problems that really can't be seen.
This is not what the dream was about.

No, it will never be a Morgan again. Not so that you can trust her just
because there is a long history of Morgans that are built just like her
that have proven themselves countless times. That was why you bought a
Morgan in the first place. The confidence that she'll be able to handle
anything the sea throws at her. That's gone for good now. There will
always be a nagging doubt. You'll live in fear of every new set of
conditions, only trusting her if conditions are just perfect, and they
never are. Over time your love for her will turn to hate just from this
nagging mistrust. You'll find more and more excuses to leave her at the
dock. Afraid each and every time you leave a port.

No, even a horse you dearly love should be put down when the time comes.
Do it swiftly and without regrets.

Good luck,
Paul

--

Remove Before Flight

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:51:44 -0500, (Paul) wrote:

In article , "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

So now the question becomes, can you ever make it strong enough
without that access?

How could you ever know how strong it was?

You'll never reach 100% new as-built strength. But even if you did by some
chance, you'll never be able to KNOW exactly how strong the repair is.
You'll have to take her out in progressivly more stressful conditions and
each time there will be that knot in your gut. Will it take 5' seas? 6'
seas? 7' seas pounding for day after day? Even if it does, you'll not
know if the next wave will be the one. You'll crawl around in the bildge
after each short trip looking for problems that really can't be seen.
This is not what the dream was about.

No, it will never be a Morgan again. Not so that you can trust her just
because there is a long history of Morgans that are built just like her
that have proven themselves countless times. That was why you bought a
Morgan in the first place. The confidence that she'll be able to handle
anything the sea throws at her. That's gone for good now. There will
always be a nagging doubt. You'll live in fear of every new set of
conditions, only trusting her if conditions are just perfect, and they
never are. Over time your love for her will turn to hate just from this
nagging mistrust. You'll find more and more excuses to leave her at the
dock. Afraid each and every time you leave a port.

No, even a horse you dearly love should be put down when the time comes.
Do it swiftly and without regrets.

Good luck,
Paul

Sorry, but that's just plain ignorance talking. The boat could be repaired
to be
stronger than original. I rarely "repair" anything on a boat without
making it
better than it ever was.

CWM

Yup, gotta agree with Charlie.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:04:15 -0500, Charlie Morgan wrote:

The boat could be repaired to be
stronger than original. I rarely "repair" anything on a boat without making it
better than it ever was.

Yes, but you hace to be prepared to do the job properly which means
disassembling anything which needs to be removed for proper access.
Squirting a little resin into the voids and clamping it up is not
likely to be succesful beyond the first storm.

In article , Charlie Morgan
wrote:


Sorry, but that's just plain ignorance talking. The boat could be
repaired to be
stronger than original. I rarely "repair" anything on a boat without making it
better than it ever was.

Charlie,

Ignorance I'll always admit to.

But repairing a boat was not the issue.
Restoring your confidence and trust in the boat after a repair like this
was the point.

At what precise moment in time will you be able to declare that it is now
"all fixed" and is "better than it ever was"?
And right up until this magic point in time, how exactly will you feel
about your life on the boat?
Confident and secure, or cautious and worried?
Which way do you want to feel when you sail?
These things would be on my mind if my life was on the line.

We're not talking about fixing a leaky head here. Nor was this the last
good old boat left in the world.
Go find another with a sound hull and get on with enjoying life.
This whole "get back on the horse" bull**** don't cut it when the horse is
stone cold dead.

BTW, do you fix multiple popped bulkheads often ?
I know, you guarantee all work done or my money & life back right. ;-)

Sweet dreams,
Paul

--

Remove Before Flight

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:04:15 -0500, Charlie Morgan wrote:

The boat could be repaired to be
stronger than original. I rarely "repair" anything on a boat without
making it
better than it ever was.

Yes, but you hace to be prepared to do the job properly which means
disassembling anything which needs to be removed for proper access.
Squirting a little resin into the voids and clamping it up is not
likely to be succesful beyond the first storm.


Absolutely. I certainly hope that isn't the impression you got from my
suggestion.

Of little interest to most, I'm sure, but I, of the curious mind,
wonder:

What, indeed, were the winds out there that night? In the harsh light
of day I see:

The Davis wind indicator has lost one leg entirely, and the tab from
the other.
The hailer horn, newly installed, blew off.
The KISS wind generator, also newly installed, left behind only a
blackened stump and a length of wire.

What sort of speed is required to cause those departures?

Surely, based on experience of those in the know, not enough to blow
us off course, but enough to do some damage, apparently.

I'm sure glad the radar antenna didn't follow the horn mounted below
it - apparently it was more aerodynamic and/or more stoutly
mounted...

Meanwhile, the yard has had its first look; it appears as though - if
they care to bid on it at all - it will be strictly time and
materials.

While they and the insurance company figure out what to do, the yard
bill clicks along at $500 a week just to sit still on the stands.

I'm beginning to consider a tow back to the yard where we were, as, if
this is to be saved, it nearly certainly won't be by the yard here
doing the work - I have little doubt the policy limits would be
exceeded very quickly, and besides, I expect the insurance company
will require firm quotes, which, to protect themselves, the yard will
make astronomical.

Where we were, we can be stored and worked on for less than 1/6 the
yard cost here. If it turns out to be many months, that's many
thousands difference in what will inevitably be out-of-pocket expenses
- which we currently have no concept of how to find.

And, at least up there, we have some "community" having worked on the
boat for the last three years there.

I'm going to make a concerted effort tomorrow, following conversations
with a surveyor who is also a morgan owner, and has recommended
various tradespeople to us, to get individual contractors' opinions
about the method of attack, as well as the anticipated end cost. If it
can possibly be done here, in the parameters of the insurance
coverage, we'll go for it.

If it's way over, but, say, less than double, likely we'll pull it
back to St. Pete, as I am confident we can find competent tradespeople
there at comparable or less cost, but save 5k every three months in
yard bills, money sorely needed to make repairs...

Wish us luck (I know, you already do - we're overwhelmed with support,
for which we are without words, as they're simply inadequate,
including, today, another morgan owner giving us his suburban he no
longer needed, for us to haul the inevitable huge amount of supplies
for our refit)...

L8R

Skip and Lydia

--
Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at and


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

In article , Charlie Morgan
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:01:12 -0500, (Paul) wrote:

In article , Charlie Morgan
wrote:


Sorry, but that's just plain ignorance talking. The boat could be
repaired to be
stronger than original. I rarely "repair" anything on a boat without
making it
better than it ever was.

Charlie,

Ignorance I'll always admit to.

But repairing a boat was not the issue.
Restoring your confidence and trust in the boat after a repair like this
was the point.

At what precise moment in time will you be able to declare that it is now
"all fixed" and is "better than it ever was"?
And right up until this magic point in time, how exactly will you feel
about your life on the boat?
Confident and secure, or cautious and worried?
Which way do you want to feel when you sail?
These things would be on my mind if my life was on the line.

We're not talking about fixing a leaky head here. Nor was this the last
good old boat left in the world.
Go find another with a sound hull and get on with enjoying life.
This whole "get back on the horse" bull**** don't cut it when the horse is
stone cold dead.

BTW, do you fix multiple popped bulkheads often ?
I know, you guarantee all work done or my money & life back right. ;-)

Sweet dreams,
Paul

Apparently some of us are more skilled at this type of work than others. :')

When I say I tend to make things better than original, I wasn't making
anything
up. Those here who have some skills and experience in these things will know
that it's not magic to make something better when you rebuild it. You observe
why something failed, and you figure out how to make it better.

CWM

Well hell Charlie, what's yer hourly rate?
I'm bringing all my reef wrecks to you from now on

Nite,
Paul

--

Remove Before Flight

In article ,
Charlie Morgan wrote:

Apparently some of us are more skilled at this type of work than
others. :')

When I say I tend to make things better than original, I wasn't
making anything up. Those here who have some skills and experience in
these things will know that it's not magic to make something better
when you rebuild it. You observe why something failed, and you figure
out how to make it better.

Agreement. I replaced our primary bulkhead a few seasons back. It's
stronger, better protected, and prettier than the original, which gave
out after only 30 years. Helps when you get advice from the people who
built the boat.

Some boats are designed and built to be handed down to the grandkids
despite the wear and tear of decades of use and abuse.


--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/