Be careful Larry ,, Wayne wants you gone. He hates people like you. His
whole existance is threatened when someone tells him his view of the world
isn't necessarily everyone elses.


===============================
"Larry" wrote in message
...
"NE Sailboat" wrote in
news:Sfzhh.1429$Pq4.692@trndny08:

Wayne ,, you are showing a rather ugly side here. Do you have
something against people who live in trailer parks?

When you stop by Dunkin Donuts, do you call the employees losers? I
bet many of them live in trailer parks.

The "towns are getting fed up" . Classic "not in my backyard"
thinking. Oh, it is ok to pay next to nothing for to the lady who
drives your kids to school, the school janitor, the guy down at
Dunkins, the employee of Walmart ...........

As long as you don't have to associate with these people ... and for
heaven's sake you don't want "them" anywhere near the water.


I for one would rather dock next to someone who is busting their ass
at Dunkin Donuts and has an old sailboat than some Trustfund Baby who
never worked a day in his/her life.

Don't be too critical of the sailors who are at the bottom of the
docking order.


Wow, Wayne gets ugly some times. Some of us simply have no need for a
showy mortgaged mansion that drains away whatever you make. I'm always
amused that people living in houses where you can't hear the grand piano
in
the drawing room back in the kitchen spend most weekends at the "floating
trailer park" living in a 1 bedroom shack with a mast sticking out of it
and telling each other how wonderful it is.

This afternoon, instead of working for more mortgage bankers, I'm screwing
off in my nasty ol' "trailer" on the riverfront across the Ashley River
from historic Magnolia Plantation enjoying the view with the door open.
It's 72F on the river at 1430. I got back from the seawall a few minutes
ago to check my email.

I don't consider me "at the bottom of the docking order" at all. I'm
proud
of all who feed the bankers/doctors/lawyers/politicians working 60 hours a
week, and more power to them. But, which of us is "at the bottom" this
very instant as the nice, tropical breeze moving through the Spanish Moss-
crowned Southern Oaks in my yard is wafting those wonderful flower smells
from the gardens at Magnolia through my open doors into my "nav station"
of
the Oakwood 70 dock condo? Which of us is working on his first heart
attack?....No thanks!

Gotta go, now. I'm driving my Mercedes to Eastern Buffet for a late lunch
and gotta go check the mail before the UPS man shows up with my GPS
antenna
about 4:30, his usual time.

Life is great! Sorry some missed it.

I might install the Garmin into the stepvan, later...

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:01:16 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Cap'n Ric ,, your budget is not everyone's budget. While I agree cruising
isn't as cheap as some think, many are off cruising for far less than you
spend.

Are they as comfortable as you? Probably not. Do they have as nice a boat
as yours? Probably not, make that deffinitely not.

But they are traveling about in their sailboat.

Does the poster plan on buying the boat and then living on the income from a
$100,000 portfolio? That would only give him about $10,000 per year to live
on. If the boat is paid for, and all up to date, with a part time job I
think a single could do this. A couple can do it even easier. Two people
working part time, with a home paid for, with a guarantee of $10,000 coming
in .. that might work.

The selling the homestead is the tough part, no fall back for old age.
I hoped to buy the boat out right, the 100K would have to last.
I am plumber by trade and find I can fix anything, including A/C/R.
Wife seems to think we should get a large boat, one that can take
crewed charters to make money. I cannot disagree with her, as it seems
a way to make money. (licensing aside, or as necessary)


If each worked part time and they both earn around $12,000 per year. That
is $24,000 plus the $10,000 from investment .. might work.

They would need a very simple boat, live without much. I'm not sure about
the health insurance. One reason the rest of the developed world can go off
and we Americans are stuck is because of our health care system. On the one
hand ( treatment, doctors, nurses, medicine ) it is the best in the world ..
and on the other hand .. the cost etc, it sucks.

I like the simple boat, and feel capable of maintaining anything on
it, or even on a complicated one. I look at the maintenance as a break
from boredom? Scraping the bottom, in a sheltered cove is a bad thing?

Is it unrealistic to be on the move most of the time?


There are a few books about that show how a couple can live very cheaply.

We have done very well when living cheap! (better than with disposable
income)


They aren't renting cars, going out the restaurants, etc though.

Bikes have done me well, or a moped around the world so far, and avoid
the expense and hassle of most other forms of transportation.


It is all about the choices one makes.

I think I would fall in the middle. Your budget is way more than I spend.
But, I don't want to be at the bottom end either.




"Cap'n Ric" wrote in message
news:Md1hh.2689$aD6.2375@trndny02...
If you intend to live at a level above a wharf rat a $100,000 will last
less than three years. I'm a full time liveaboard cruiser and I have spent
$51,000 year to date just on basics and boat expenses I'm also paying for
a son at an expensive college. I worked hard and invested well years ago
and have an investment income in excess of what I spend annually.


I have a fully equipped 2003 Beneteau 473 sailboat with extensive
navigation and communication gear, water maker, genset, RIB, Satellite TV,
Phone, Internet. Some simple figures on an annual basis:


Twenty Year loan for boat (After over $125K down payment): $16,008

Annual Insurance agreed hull, with liveaboard coverage, extended cruising
area: $3,500

Health Insurance, Blue Cross Blue Shield (Family coverage to include
college student son): $5,100

Fuel Charges (Average) @ $2.50 per gallon: 900 * 2.50 = $2,250

Annual Maintenance Budget( Zincs, Synthetic Oil, filters, bottom paint
(Haul out every 2 years): $1,500

Annual Repair Budget: $7,000

Mooring charges (60 days at $35) $2,100

Transient slip charges (30 days at $125): $3,750

That comes to $41,208 and you haven't eaten, bought clothes, rented a car,
taken a cab. . . . .nothing. Let's say you can eat for $100 a week. That
brings us up to $47,000.


I'll get off my soap box now but too many people think they can do this on
$100,000 for the rest of their life. If you only have two years to live
then you are correct. I also see a lot of people writing that "real
cruisers" don't go to marinas or get mooring balls - They anchor out!!
I've done this for eight years and I won't make any apologies, I live
well. If it is rough, hot, raining, high winds and/or lightening and I'm
near a port with nice floating docks and transportation to a good
restaurant then that is where I'm heading. That is what having a larger
budget for doing this allows. Forgive me but owning a large boat and
sailing around the world for years is not a God given right. First you
have to work and earn enough to be able to do this or have a job that
allows you to work while you are cruising. You can see the sunken
derelicts all along the ICW and in many anchorages and harbors around the
world of people that tried to do this without sufficient funds.

Cap'n Ric

S/V Sezaneh





--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:56:12 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:01:16 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

There are a few books about that show how a couple can live very cheaply.

They aren't renting cars, going out the restaurants, etc though.

It is all about the choices one makes.

Yes, and the choice is to live somewhere that resembles a floating
trailer park. Not pretty, and the towns are getting fed up. That
makes it more difficult for the rest of us who maintain our boats and
move on after a few days. This whole notion of being able to cruise
the world on the cheap is a complete myth.

Next fall we would have to do it on the cheap.
10 years from now, not so much.
20 years from now, in style, but we wonder if it would be better to
just go for it, young enough to enjoy the "cleaning of the hull"
I have a dock to tie to in my home port, and intend to move on or
anchor for short periods if the territory strikes me.
Somewhere further in this thread, the TT dock sounds like home!
(and resembles the one I will tie to for a small contribution of $ele$
and some more esoteric contributions for the favor.)
--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:07:57 -0500, Howard wrote:

Frank,

There is a thread over on the Sailnet.com forum relevant to your questions.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...inancials.html

The thread sort of wanders around, as they tend to do, but does
eventually come back to the question. Also, I found it just plain
interesting and funny at times. I recommend it.

Howard

Yes it does wander, and was a great read, thanks for the link.
--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

"NE Sailboat" wrote in
news9Ehh.1445$Pq4.1014@trndny08:

Be careful Larry ,, Wayne wants you gone. He hates people like you.
His whole existance is threatened when someone tells him his view of
the world isn't necessarily everyone elses.



Lucky for him there aren't very many "people like me"....(c;

Most of 'em are much worse!

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:57:41 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Be careful Larry ,, Wayne wants you gone. He hates people like you. His
whole existance is threatened when someone tells him his view of the world
isn't necessarily everyone elses.

Not so, it takes all kinds. There are actually some very nice
trailer parks here and there, typically retired folks who take a great
deal of pride in their homes and apply a lot of peer pressure to those
who don't.

And then there are the floating trailer parks with the home made
plywood aft cabins, 3 feet of sea weed hanging off the bottom and
multiple layers of artistic mildew decorating the top sides.
Typically the mast will be horizontal on 2 x 4s with a tarp stretched
over it but not always.

These are the folks who went cruising on the cheap and got just far
enough to be south of the frost line. And they are the first ones to
scream about the latest anti anchoring law that just got passed by the
town fathers.

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:51:52 -0700, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Woodsy wrote:
"In my youth" I went half way around and back. At the helm a lot of
the way in a big USN way. "As I age" I wish to do it all the way
around. My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation. We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.
Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?

Looking for input, thank full for your time.

A month or two ago, Cruising World did an analysis of three ways to
cruise from frugal to luxo. I may be wrong, but that was also all
inclusive. Find and read that issue for all the info on probable costs.

Wow, about 5 hours before you wrote this, I picked up 10/06 (and 11
and 12/06) CW, and the article was in it. I have got to clean out the
POBox more often.I just started in to the article tonight.
Thanks, I would have bought the back issue otherwise.


There is NOTHING preventing you from doing small work to earn $$ on the
way. By doing little works you learn more about the communities you
visit than if you just tourist it. Some cruisers have skills they market
to other cruisers like if you are a reefer tech your future is MADE on
the water. Do not count on employment overseas, but it's easy in the US.
You can market your skills to cruisers anywhere.

Master plumber. the odd diesel mechanics,gas engine,small engine,etc
classes as continuing education, off the grid for over a decade in
recent past, worked in the weight test and rigging, sail loft on a
tender. B'osun. I own an O-Scope! And a pile of tools I can make a
living off of. Humm, maybe this cheap thing could work. That monster
cat on yacht world looks better and better. Deck crane, pull your
engine and meet you in Tahiti, drop it back in rebuilt. How many cans
of universal refrigerant before you violate a law?


Make it clear to the brokers that you are future buyers. Establish a
relationship with a broker who you learn to like and then when you are
ready to buy, contact that broker, say what you want, and make him part
of the deal. That way both of you are happy and you aren't exploiting
the guy now.

You will definitely want a broker on your side when you buy for a
variety of reasons I expect you know. If not, then repost.

I don't see a lot of positives with a broker.
What makes them desirable, and what makes a good one?


Thanks again,

Frank


--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:39:34 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

And then there are the floating trailer parks with the home made plywood
aft cabins, 3 feet of sea weed hanging off the bottom and multiple
layers of artistic mildew decorating the top sides. Typically the mast
will be horizontal on 2 x 4s with a tarp stretched over it but not
always.

These are the folks who went cruising on the cheap and got just far
enough to be south of the frost line. And they are the first ones to
scream about the latest anti anchoring law that just got passed by the
town fathers.

Actually a lot of them aren't cruisers at all, but people who live on
boats because it's cheaper than an apartment.

I know they're all over Florida. False Creek in Vancouver, BC is full of
them. There are plenty of "sneakaboards" living where they're not
supposed to in southern California marinas too. The few I've known over
the years weren't really boaters at all.

There are plenty of cruisers with inexpensive boats that are well taken
care of, some even quite spiffy.

Matt O.

Woodsy wrote:

My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation.

I suggest ya read teh post titled Cat Capsized off Oregon coast before
comitting to a cat capable of a round the world.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...GHUN14OU18.DTL


How many upside down cat stories are necessary for people see a
pattern?!?


We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.

As soon as I see the word "dream" I get worried.

Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Just say what ya just said. Let the owner/broker make the choice.


Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?


Sure. $!00,000 x .055 = $5,500/year.
But is SSI sis the only thin ya got for later.......?

Which breangs me to anothe queston.

So how are all thoes "writer and sailing experts" in the sailing
magazines who have "zillions of miles under their keel" and did
everything and are experts in all things that float going to live after
they are too old to work? I am assuming they did not bank much in 40
years of sailing and writing 500 word articles for $200 each.

Any clues?




Looking for input, thank full for your time.
Frank and Gail.

Try the "crusing simulator" posted her a few years back.



(and is "Gail Wins" a bad name for a boat?)

No worse than "wet spot" or "breaking wind"



--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

So how are all thoes "writer and sailing experts" in the sailing
magazines who have "zillions of miles under their keel" and did
everything and are experts in all things that float going to live after
they are too old to work? I am assuming they did not bank much in 40
years of sailing and writing 500 word articles for $200 each.

Any clues?
================================================== ===================================

Are you living to die or dying to LIVE? Those writers who have spent 40
years traveling all over the world and writing $200 dollar articles about
their adventures may not have much money, they might end up poor, homeless,
who knows. But, when their epitath is written, when their last cruise has
ended, they will go to their maker knowing that the trip here on earth was a
great ride.

Rather than mock them, I think of them as my hero's. I read of their
successes and of their failures. The storms they endured. The good times.
And sometimes the bad. Sure, they could have stayed put, worked at a job,
never set out for who knows where. But some urge, something within them,
sent them out onto the ocean. They ventured forth in small boats. Would we
be a better lot if not for the likes of Captain Joshua Slocum?

Robert Service, the poet put it best.

There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and they rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain's crest;
Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don't know how to rest.

If they just went straight they might go far;
They are strong and brave and true;
But they're always tired of the things that are,
And they want the strange and new.
They say: "Could I find my proper groove,
What a deep mark I would make!"
So they chop and change, and each fresh move
Is only a fresh mistake.

And each forgets, as he strips and runs
With a brilliant, fitful pace,
It's the steady, quiet, plodding ones
Who win in the lifelong race.
And each forgets that his youth has fled,
Forgets that his prime is past,
Till he stands one day, with a hope that's dead,
In the glare of the truth at last.

He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;
He has just done things by half.
Life's been a jolly good joke on him,
And now is the time to laugh.
Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;
He was never meant to win;
He's a rolling stone, and it's bred in the bone;
He's a man who won't fit in.

Robert Service



================================================== ================================================== ==========





"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Woodsy wrote:

My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation.

I suggest ya read teh post titled Cat Capsized off Oregon coast before
comitting to a cat capable of a round the world.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...GHUN14OU18.DTL


How many upside down cat stories are necessary for people see a
pattern?!?


We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.

As soon as I see the word "dream" I get worried.

Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Just say what ya just said. Let the owner/broker make the choice.


Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?


Sure. $!00,000 x .055 = $5,500/year.
But is SSI sis the only thin ya got for later.......?

Which breangs me to anothe queston.

So how are all thoes "writer and sailing experts" in the sailing
magazines who have "zillions of miles under their keel" and did
everything and are experts in all things that float going to live after
they are too old to work? I am assuming they did not bank much in 40
years of sailing and writing 500 word articles for $200 each.

Any clues?




Looking for input, thank full for your time.
Frank and Gail.

Try the "crusing simulator" posted her a few years back.



(and is "Gail Wins" a bad name for a boat?)

No worse than "wet spot" or "breaking wind"



--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...