On 31 Jul 2006 17:51:36 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

No, no, no.... Ben and Jerrys.

Too much sugar for my taste. They have great plant tours and free
samples however if you ever get to Stowe, Vermont.

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:
On 31 Jul 2006 17:51:36 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

No, no, no.... Ben and Jerrys.

Too much sugar for my taste. They have great plant tours and free
samples however if you ever get to Stowe, Vermont.

It's on my list of places to visit. :-)



--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Gerald wrote:
.... I my lifetime of sailing, many thousands of miles inland and
offshore, I have never "had" to make a maneuver that forced another vessel
to take an action in response

I guess you never sailed a boat with no engine in channel.



True on the one hand the wind does shift. As a sailing vessel you are
normally the stand on vessel relative to a power vessel. As a stand on
vessel you are REQUIRED Rule 17(a) to maintain your course and speed.

Unless, of course, that is impossible.

... Note that the rules do not say that you must maintain your
course and speed except when the wind shifts, or the water gets too shallow,
or whatever else your problem may be.


What a stupid thing to say. If the water "becomes too
shallow" then
1- you will most certainly not maintain speed, no matter hwo
you try to maintain course
2- under the rules, you are then constrained by draft.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Gerald wrote:
.... I my lifetime of sailing, many thousands of miles inland and
offshore, I have never "had" to make a maneuver that forced another
vessel to take an action in response

I guess you never sailed a boat with no engine in channel.

Small day sail boats through various access channels around the Long Island
Sound area. Other than that all sailboats had power. Being in a small day
sailboat, and not always prepared to meet my maker, I plan my passage
carefully. I genuinely do not like surprises.


True on the one hand the wind does shift. As a sailing vessel you are
normally the stand on vessel relative to a power vessel. As a stand on
vessel you are REQUIRED Rule 17(a) to maintain your course and speed.

Unless, of course, that is impossible.

No, the rule does not say "Unless, of course, that is impossible".

... Note that the rules do not say that you must maintain your course
and speed except when the wind shifts, or the water gets too shallow, or
whatever else your problem may be.


What a stupid thing to say. If the water "becomes too shallow" then
1- you will most certainly not maintain speed, no matter hwo you try to
maintain course

Certainly not if you run aground. Are you unfamiliar with the water you are
sailing in? Do you have charts? Are you a graduate of the "Sail by
Braille" school?

2- under the rules, you are then constrained by draft.

DO YOU EVER READ THE RULES????????

"Constrained by draft" is a term that apples ONLY to power-driven vessles in
INTERNATIONAL waters. See Rule 3(h) INTERNATIONAL. Constrained by draft does
not exist in the INLAND rules. Good grief DSK!!!! It is no longer amazing to
me that you have such problems....



DSK

.... As a stand on
vessel you are REQUIRED Rule 17(a) to maintain your course and speed.

Unless, of course, that is impossible.


Gerald wrote:
No, the rule does not say "Unless, of course, that is impossible".


Well, I guess if the rules can require the impossible, then
why not demand burdened vessels to lift straight up in the
air, to get out of your way?

Don't be absurd, the ColRegs cannot require a vessel to
perform an impossible maneuver.



... Note that the rules do not say that you must maintain your course
and speed except when the wind shifts, or the water gets too shallow, or
whatever else your problem may be.


What a stupid thing to say. If the water "becomes too shallow" then
1- you will most certainly not maintain speed, no matter hwo you try to
maintain course


Certainly not if you run aground. Are you unfamiliar with the water you are
sailing in? Do you have charts? Are you a graduate of the "Sail by
Braille" school?


No to all the above.

OTOH if you haven't run aground, you've never been anywhere.


2- under the rules, you are then constrained by draft.


DO YOU EVER READ THE RULES????????


Yes

"Constrained by draft" is a term that apples ONLY to power-driven vessles

Bull****.

I think I see the problem here....

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
.... As a stand on vessel you are REQUIRED Rule 17(a) to maintain your
course and speed.

Unless, of course, that is impossible.


Gerald wrote:
No, the rule does not say "Unless, of course, that is impossible".


Well, I guess if the rules can require the impossible, then why not demand
burdened vessels to lift straight up in the air, to get out of your way?

Don't be absurd, the ColRegs cannot require a vessel to perform an
impossible maneuver.

No, they can not and do not require the impossible. In fact they specify
very few maneuvers. There are an infinite number of specific situations
that you and I can propose that the rules do not specifically cover. In the
absence of specific guidance from the rules, good seamanship, common sense
and safety must rule. You seem to get real hung up on the situation where
you might have to tack into the path of a powerboat. Generally speaking, if
you find your self in this situation, it is probably due to your failure to
anticipate. Yes, **** does happen, sometimes a deadhead will magically
appear in your path. If you do tack directly in front of a powerboat
because the wind shifts, good luck. Good luck on surviving, and good luck
in court.



... Note that the rules do not say that you must maintain your course
and speed except when the wind shifts, or the water gets too shallow, or
whatever else your problem may be.


What a stupid thing to say. If the water "becomes too shallow" then
1- you will most certainly not maintain speed, no matter hwo you try to
maintain course


Certainly not if you run aground. Are you unfamiliar with the water you
are sailing in? Do you have charts? Are you a graduate of the "Sail by
Braille" school?


No to all the above.


OTOH if you haven't run aground, you've never been anywhere.

True, but irrelevant.



2- under the rules, you are then constrained by draft.


DO YOU EVER READ THE RULES????????


Yes

"Constrained by draft" is a term that apples ONLY to power-driven vessles

Bull****.

Oh come on ... look at the definition in the rule book. "Constrained by
Draft" only applies to power-driven vessels in INTERNATIONAL water. There
is no such thing as "constrained by draft" in the inland rules. Now if you
want to discuss "draft in relation to the depth of available water" as
factor in determining "Safe Speed" - Rule 6 that is different.

In article ,
Chris Newport wrote:

That is why the rules seem to create, and actually do create, an
environment where power boats are expected to steer around sailboats.
We are helpless against your power and especially against your
ignorance.

Tell me, o great genius, how 100 tons is going to turn on a sixpence to
avoid you when you decide to change tack at the last moment.
Put it another way, the lights are turning green but you see a big truck
doing sixty mph and about to jump the red. You may have right of way,
but pulling out in your little car is NOT a clever idea.

Get a clue. We're talking recreational vs recreational.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote:
In article ,
Chris Newport wrote:


That is why the rules seem to create, and actually do create, an
environment where power boats are expected to steer around sailboats.
We are helpless against your power and especially against your
ignorance.

Tell me, o great genius, how 100 tons is going to turn on a sixpence to
avoid you when you decide to change tack at the last moment.
Put it another way, the lights are turning green but you see a big truck
doing sixty mph and about to jump the red. You may have right of way,
but pulling out in your little car is NOT a clever idea.


Get a clue. We're talking recreational vs recreational.


So am I, 100 tons is about right for a large private motor yacht.
Not everyone messes about in little dingys. This is rec.boats.CRUISING
not rec.boats.messing_about_in_things_that_belong_in_c alm_water.