wrote in message
ps.com...

Roger Long wrote:
...
As a just (self) grounded private pilot, it does seem strange
to go
out and do something that involves just as much responsibility
and
requires just as much skill (at least to do safely) with out
all the
training and oversight involved in flying aircraft. Boat
licensing is
probably overdue but I still hate to see it coming up over the
horizon.

Your premise is wrong. Boating is far easier to do safely than
flying.

Exactly. Consider the docking manouevre; off centre at 3kts is
very different from being off centre at 100kts. Consider the
effects of bad weather against fuel planning; running out of fuel
because you couldn't get into a port is not a consideration of a
boat. Consider incapacitated crew . . . and so on.

Back to Roger's point. European practice on licencing is
interesting.

Great Britain probably has the most challenging sailing conditions
in Europe, and has no governmental requirement for licencing or
insuring leisure sailors. Nor do vessels used solely for leisure
have to be registered. Some marinas insist on vessels having third
party insurance, and some charterers want to see competence
certificates. These are commercial arrangements only.

Over the rest of Europe and in the Mediterranean, certificates of
competence *and* third party insurance are governmental
requirements for anyone in charge of any vessel, with some
exceptions in some countries for small dinghies. These countries
have better weather factors, weaker tides (if any), fewer people
on the water, in fact, fewer reasons overall for needing licencing
(with the exception of controlling traffic on some inland
waterways, which are pretty crowded). However, most of these
countries had a bureaucratic infrastructure designed to handle
commercial traffic, and automatically applied commercial controls
to leisure sailing, which was a trivial activity immediately post
war (unlike Britain).

Of course, once bureaucrats have a task, they're reluctant to face
redundancy, preferring instead to argue the need for increased
control . . .

My views?

The most serious and frequent leisure accidents arise from small
high speed vessels. I don't mind if people wish to risk injuring
themselves, but third parties need to be protected. Governmental
intervention is not effective unless it is policed, and licencing
does not prevent road accidents. I'd like to go the insurance
route.

Any vessel with an energy content equivalent to 10kts on 16ft
should be third party insured. Probably best implemented by saying
'anything that can do more than 10kts, or is longer than 16' is to
carry third party insurance.' That may require boat registration
if the insurance is attached to the vessel, and if the insurance
is attached to the driver, insurance companies would probably
discount insurance to those with suitable certificates.

Policing? Random checks at launching points. Impound vessels not
covered by insurance.

Got that off my chest, I feel better now.

--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas

News F2,3,4,5,................... the last time I checked; Europe SUCKED!

Take a look at France ,,,,,,,,, lovely place ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, SUCKS!

As for the rest of the "Continent" ................ why do you think the
founding fathers wanted independence?


Answer: Europe SUCKS!



=====================
"News f2s" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...

Roger Long wrote:
...
As a just (self) grounded private pilot, it does seem strange to go
out and do something that involves just as much responsibility and
requires just as much skill (at least to do safely) with out all the
training and oversight involved in flying aircraft. Boat licensing is
probably overdue but I still hate to see it coming up over the
horizon.

Your premise is wrong. Boating is far easier to do safely than flying.

Exactly. Consider the docking manouevre; off centre at 3kts is very
different from being off centre at 100kts. Consider the effects of bad
weather against fuel planning; running out of fuel because you couldn't
get into a port is not a consideration of a boat. Consider incapacitated
crew . . . and so on.

Back to Roger's point. European practice on licencing is interesting.

Great Britain probably has the most challenging sailing conditions in
Europe, and has no governmental requirement for licencing or insuring
leisure sailors. Nor do vessels used solely for leisure have to be
registered. Some marinas insist on vessels having third party insurance,
and some charterers want to see competence certificates. These are
commercial arrangements only.

Over the rest of Europe and in the Mediterranean, certificates of
competence *and* third party insurance are governmental requirements for
anyone in charge of any vessel, with some exceptions in some countries for
small dinghies. These countries have better weather factors, weaker tides
(if any), fewer people on the water, in fact, fewer reasons overall for
needing licencing (with the exception of controlling traffic on some
inland waterways, which are pretty crowded). However, most of these
countries had a bureaucratic infrastructure designed to handle commercial
traffic, and automatically applied commercial controls to leisure sailing,
which was a trivial activity immediately post war (unlike Britain).

Of course, once bureaucrats have a task, they're reluctant to face
redundancy, preferring instead to argue the need for increased control . .
.

My views?

The most serious and frequent leisure accidents arise from small high
speed vessels. I don't mind if people wish to risk injuring themselves,
but third parties need to be protected. Governmental intervention is not
effective unless it is policed, and licencing does not prevent road
accidents. I'd like to go the insurance route.

Any vessel with an energy content equivalent to 10kts on 16ft should be
third party insured. Probably best implemented by saying 'anything that
can do more than 10kts, or is longer than 16' is to carry third party
insurance.' That may require boat registration if the insurance is
attached to the vessel, and if the insurance is attached to the driver,
insurance companies would probably discount insurance to those with
suitable certificates.

Policing? Random checks at launching points. Impound vessels not covered
by insurance.

Got that off my chest, I feel better now.

--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas

"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:6ddYf.272$c_1.170@trndny04...
News F2,3,4,5,................... the last time I checked;
Europe SUCKED!

Take a look at France ,,,,,,,,, lovely place ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
SUCKS!

As for the rest of the "Continent" ................ why do you
think the founding fathers wanted independence?


Answer: Europe SUCKS!

Attaboy! If you don't like the message, attack the messenger!
Attaack the place he lives! Show everyone how intelligent your
arguments are!

Anyone know who this guy is? Who rattled his cage?
--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas

"News f2s" wrote

Anyone know who this guy is?

He claims to have just bought a "BIG" boat very near to me here in
Maine but provides no other details. A Google search for the "Colonial
Governor's Office" in his header turns up nothing that looks like it
could be in the US. I'm curious for some reason to see if he turns
out to be a real person who is actually going to become a cruiser or
just a troll living out his fantasies on this newsgroup.

One thing for sure, if he really did buy a boat, we all know that
we'll start hearing real posts about real problems pretty soon here.
If we don't, it's probably time to toss him into the killfile.

--

Roger Long