On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 01:41:26 GMT, in message

"Roger Long" wrote:

When they get to a certain
critical mass, as they may in NJ and CT, it probably could get to the
point where I felt it was worth sitting through the course so that I
could be sure that everyone was taking it.

An otherwise intelligent friend of mine with a successful business and
a PhD in engineering took a boating course after several years of
powerboat ownership. He was surprised to learn that there was a reason
those sailboats kept tacking back and forth. I think he is probably
much less of a hazard on the water now that he knows a little more.

I am entirely in favour of requiring all boaters to demonstrate a
minimum level of knowledge and competence. Here you can simply take
the exam and get a license for about the cost of a case of beer, and
it's good for a lifetime. Scarcely a drop in the boat budget bucket of
either time or money.

Ryk

--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

In article , MMC
wrote:

Every time I hear of a kid killed on a jet ski I think mandatory training is
a good idea.

That's worked wonderfully well for motorcycles and the same age cohort.
Not.

Every time I hear of anyone killed on a jet ski, I think of evolution
in action. Yeah, I do have kids. If one died thru preventable stupidity
as a result of their own bad judgement, I'd be heartbroken, but not
real surprised. I remember some of the stupid things I did at the same
age.

PDW

In article .com,
wrote:

You seem to be saying that the law should be administered on a
case-by-case
wherein we decide in the case of every individual boater whether or not
they
have the pre-existing skills and experience to just get out of having
the take the class.

Seems ridiculous to me and I just don't see what the big deal is. You
say the 8-hour
course is "a burden on my time that I do not have now," but then
describe yourself
(stating the obvious) as a recreational sailor, so this would be the
equivalent of one good
day on the water you might have to give up. I still don't think the
burden is that onerous.

Maybe you're just saying that there should be a distinction made
between sailors and
power-boaters. I don't know that I disagree vehemently with that, I
think the licensing is
an excellent idea for pwc'ers and all other power-boaters, and the
proof is in the pudding in
the accident statistics states where these laws have already been
booked. Lives have been
saved, the water is safer overall in those places, I think it's well
worth it.

If we just passed a law prohibiting any recreational power vessel from
exceeding 10 knots, the problem (and PWC's) would go away. Accident
stats would show a huge drop.

Hey, Rich, if it saves one life, it's worth it......

BTW, did you ever figure out what kinetic energy was, and why a PWC was
a lot more dangerous than a 16' sailing dinghy? No?

PDW

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 20:02:08 -0400, in message

Larry wrote:

Someone gave me their grandfather's South Carolina driver's "tag". Yes, it
isn't a license at all! It's a metal tag, similar to a dog tag. It has
just your driver's number on it. SC, backwards to a fault, used it into
the 1950's.

My EU driver's license, issued in Bavaria in the eighties, has no
expiry date. Just like my boating card.

Ryk

--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

On 3 Apr 2006 21:46:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

So I take it your view is that unless a boater has committed a crime for
which he can be imprisoned, he should be free to continue serial episodes of
boating while drunk?

Not at all, just enforce the existing laws. Serial DUI is a felony in
many jurisdictions.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote

Flying is surprisingly easy. Walking the length of a foot wide
board is quite easy. Put the board between two tall buildings
and it suddenly becomes something different. Then add a couple
other tasks to do as you walk across.

Here you've touched the nub of the disagreement. You've been
comparing (I suspect) easy flying with difficult sailing, and
concluding that flying is easier (and, perhaps, overexpensive to
insure!).

In any of these 'concentration' activities, people learn the
basics. Then they extend the envelope or performance level of
those activities until they reach a limit. You've probably done
that as a sailor, with the consequences not too dire. I certainly
have. Have you done that in aviation? or were you self limited by
the possibility of catastrophe? Or trained to avoid the limits?

Most aviation accidents are ultimately pilot error but the
things that often kill pilots are not things that you can train
for.

Human error, actually, not necessarily pilot. And what usually
kills is not one error, but a combination of two or three errors
(design error, faulty maintenance, poor operational procedure)
followed by the pilot being unable to dig himself out of the hole
(metaphorically). The point is that the pilot has been trained to
survive most of these events - and not be killed by them - but
some rare combinations escape the net of preparation.

Of course, there are idiots that ignore basics and go for thrills.
But that applies to any activity, sailing included. Who are these
idiots who sail single handedly the wrong way round the world in
boats which can't be righted when they're knocked over? Or those
skiers who schuss down rock encumbered cliffs? Or flyers who do
low aerobatics over the girlfriend's house?
--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas

"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:6ddYf.272$c_1.170@trndny04...
News F2,3,4,5,................... the last time I checked;
Europe SUCKED!

Take a look at France ,,,,,,,,, lovely place ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
SUCKS!

As for the rest of the "Continent" ................ why do you
think the founding fathers wanted independence?


Answer: Europe SUCKS!

Attaboy! If you don't like the message, attack the messenger!
Attaack the place he lives! Show everyone how intelligent your
arguments are!

Anyone know who this guy is? Who rattled his cage?
--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas

"News f2s" wrote

Here you've touched the nub of the disagreement. You've been
comparing (I suspect) easy flying with difficult sailing, and
concluding that flying is easier (and, perhaps, overexpensive to
insure!).

That's exactly what I'm doing and it is not a disagreement. I'm not
trying to say that flying is easier in general. Both flying and
sailing cover a huge spectrum of difficulty and that red herring has
nothing to do with my point. I'm also not saying that sailing should
be licensed or more regulated.

Everything we do is increasingly regulated by a society where
government and the insurance companies are tuning the screws tighter
and tighter. I was expressing my surprise (and unsaid thanks) that I
can still do difficult sailing without doing anything except renewing
my boat registration every year. If society was consistent in these
matters, the sailing I do would be regulated as closely as my flying
was. Thank goodness it isn't.

And, to keep pounding away trying to be clear so I don't have to read
any response posts with lines of all capital letters, I'M NOT SAYING
BOATING SHOULD BE LICENSED OR FLYING SHOULD NOT BE.

--

Roger Long

"News f2s" wrote

Anyone know who this guy is?

He claims to have just bought a "BIG" boat very near to me here in
Maine but provides no other details. A Google search for the "Colonial
Governor's Office" in his header turns up nothing that looks like it
could be in the US. I'm curious for some reason to see if he turns
out to be a real person who is actually going to become a cruiser or
just a troll living out his fantasies on this newsgroup.

One thing for sure, if he really did buy a boat, we all know that
we'll start hearing real posts about real problems pretty soon here.
If we don't, it's probably time to toss him into the killfile.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
Reading more closely, it appears that you have to be able to present
written proof of having taken a safe boating course somewhere just to
pass through NJ. I guess my 45 year safe boating course wouldn't
count because I didn't get a certificate.

I'm glad I don't plan to go to NJ. The marina operators must love
this.

I'm just picking out of the WBM postings. Anybody actually looked
into this?

Good reason to avoid this hell hole. Worst place I put in ever.