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  #23   Report Post  
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Default New Jersey operator licensing


Jasper Windvane wrote:
Let me see if I have this right ;;; you think the government should require
us to get a license to sail our boats.

The same government that can't control the borders, that allows illegal
tresspassing into our county by people from some **** ass crap hole like
Mexico.

That government is now going to tell us how to sail our boats!

F..k this ,,,, New Jersey is a ********. A corrupt ********.

Anyone who thinks that sailors need licenses it NUTS! F'king NUTS.

You need to go back up in that airplane. This time bring some oxygen with
you.


What is the downside of this? I'm all for it. (Well like you say, you
don't know how effectively it can possibly be enforced, but the idea is
still good.) Us PWC'ers have been the first segment of boating to be
subject to mandatory education requirements over the last five or six
years or so, we have been all for it from the beginning, and you should
track the statistics about how boating and pwc accidents and injuries
have declined in states that have instituted these kind of laws. Seems
like a no-brainer to me that one should be trained and licensed to
drive a boat just like for a car. Too easy for people to hop onto a
boat a make trouble for themselves and others without any knowledge of
the laws, safety procedures, anything. Less so for sailboats maybe
because they require more skills, experience, and training just to
operatie in the first place, but that doesn't mean they should be
arbitrarily exempted - in fact, it seems to me that it would suggest
that it's not really any additional burden for sailors because they're
probably getting educated and trained before they hit the water anyway.

richforman

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Default New Jersey operator licensing

I am not an advocate of
recreational boat licensing... I have however, encountered many
people on the water (one which put a hole in my boat) who I wish
had either been kept off or had
their behavior modified by such a program.


Sounds like a big contradiction to me there! I think mandatory
training and certification (i.e. licensing) is the perfect solution for
the problem you just agreed is so prevalent...idiots or ignorant
boaters on the water, and the danger and damage they can cause
themselves and others.

I think if you examine accident and injury statistics in states that
have already started with laws like these, you'd have to agree that
it's already very beneficial, unless you're stuck on the personal
inconvenience you'd suffer by "sitting through the course." Actually
the courses in my experience are fairly fun and pleasant, and I would
think absolutely everyone, no matter how experienced they are, could
possibly learn something from them here and there

richforman

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Thomas Wentworth
 
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Default New Jersey operator licensing

Roger, I spent one of the nicest years of my life in NJ also... I think it
was a Friday night!

PSSSSSSS ... where do you think the money for the license is going to go?
For boating safety?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo,,, right in some corrupt pocket.

What are you thinking? Are you entirely crazy?



"Roger Long" wrote in message
news
Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I spent one of the nicest years of my
life in NJ. I just don't have any boating plans for south of Cape Cod.
My interest is to the north and east.

--

Roger Long



"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
. ..
Roger Long wrote:

... (can't think
of any reason I would ever go to New Jersey, let alone stay there the
triggering 90 days) ...


Can't think of any reason you'd get invited.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.comcast.net







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Roger Long
 
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Default New Jersey operator licensing

wrote

Sounds like a big contradiction to me there!


Of course it's a big contradiction. It's the basic tension between
freedom and order that society struggles with all the time.

Licensing will come as much because large numbers of people behave
irresponsibly as because the government is power hungry.

--

Roger Long




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DSK
 
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Default New Jersey operator licensing

Roger Long wrote:
Licensing will come as much because large numbers of people behave
irresponsibly as because the government is power hungry.


This cynic agrees with you. That doesn't make it a good thing.

At some point in the future, you will need a license to walk
in the woods, dogs will be illegal, and the average person
will be appalled at the primitive & barbaric notion that
citizens were once upon a time allowed to own firearms.

Sailing without a license??!? Ha!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

  #29   Report Post  
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Thomas Wentworth
 
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Default New Jersey operator licensing

News F2,3,4,5,................... the last time I checked; Europe SUCKED!

Take a look at France ,,,,,,,,, lovely place ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, SUCKS!

As for the rest of the "Continent" ................ why do you think the
founding fathers wanted independence?


Answer: Europe SUCKS!



=====================
"News f2s" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...

Roger Long wrote:
...
As a just (self) grounded private pilot, it does seem strange to go
out and do something that involves just as much responsibility and
requires just as much skill (at least to do safely) with out all the
training and oversight involved in flying aircraft. Boat licensing is
probably overdue but I still hate to see it coming up over the
horizon.


Your premise is wrong. Boating is far easier to do safely than flying.


Exactly. Consider the docking manouevre; off centre at 3kts is very
different from being off centre at 100kts. Consider the effects of bad
weather against fuel planning; running out of fuel because you couldn't
get into a port is not a consideration of a boat. Consider incapacitated
crew . . . and so on.

Back to Roger's point. European practice on licencing is interesting.

Great Britain probably has the most challenging sailing conditions in
Europe, and has no governmental requirement for licencing or insuring
leisure sailors. Nor do vessels used solely for leisure have to be
registered. Some marinas insist on vessels having third party insurance,
and some charterers want to see competence certificates. These are
commercial arrangements only.

Over the rest of Europe and in the Mediterranean, certificates of
competence *and* third party insurance are governmental requirements for
anyone in charge of any vessel, with some exceptions in some countries for
small dinghies. These countries have better weather factors, weaker tides
(if any), fewer people on the water, in fact, fewer reasons overall for
needing licencing (with the exception of controlling traffic on some
inland waterways, which are pretty crowded). However, most of these
countries had a bureaucratic infrastructure designed to handle commercial
traffic, and automatically applied commercial controls to leisure sailing,
which was a trivial activity immediately post war (unlike Britain).

Of course, once bureaucrats have a task, they're reluctant to face
redundancy, preferring instead to argue the need for increased control . .
.

My views?

The most serious and frequent leisure accidents arise from small high
speed vessels. I don't mind if people wish to risk injuring themselves,
but third parties need to be protected. Governmental intervention is not
effective unless it is policed, and licencing does not prevent road
accidents. I'd like to go the insurance route.

Any vessel with an energy content equivalent to 10kts on 16ft should be
third party insured. Probably best implemented by saying 'anything that
can do more than 10kts, or is longer than 16' is to carry third party
insurance.' That may require boat registration if the insurance is
attached to the vessel, and if the insurance is attached to the driver,
insurance companies would probably discount insurance to those with
suitable certificates.

Policing? Random checks at launching points. Impound vessels not covered
by insurance.

Got that off my chest, I feel better now.

--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas



  #30   Report Post  
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Default New Jersey operator licensing

DSK wrote:
wrote:
What is the downside of this? I'm all for it.


Well, sure. You're already stuck having to take classs and
get a license.

.... Us PWC'ers have been the first segment of boating to be
subject to mandatory education requirements over the last five or six
years or so, we have been all for it from the beginning,


Not all PWCers are "all for it"


Well, the pwc'ing COMMUNITY at large is all for it and has been ever
since I"ve been a part of that community for that last nine years or
so. PWC rights advocacy groups and IMO all of us more responsible,
informed, thinking riders, have advocated and supported, mandatory
education and certification, for ALL boaters as long as I've been
involved, and it seems like an excellent idea to me.

and there are still a lot of
jetski drivers who operate their boats dangerously &
offensively.


Yes, and operators of other size and shape power boats too. That is
why it seems look a great idea to try to guarantee that anyone driving
one has at least been instructed in the basics.

Some do it even after taking classes & getting
licensed, seems like they consider it part of the fun.




The reason why PWC's were the first to be regulated & to
have a license required was due to the large number of
incidents wherein PWC drivers injured others. Injuring
yourself is not the state's business IMHO.


I don't follow your thinking at all. Power boaters with bigger boats
than pwc's can certainly do lots of damage to others and the properties
of others as well as to themselves, and often do. (And to their
families and passengers.)

.... it seems to me that it would suggest
that it's not really any additional burden for sailors because they're
probably getting educated and trained before they hit the water anyway.


Yeah, let's just go ahead and have the gov't burden them
with classes & licensing req'ments etc etc, after all they
can't possibly harm anybody else at 5 knots.


I don't really see what the big burden is. The class is 8 hours and
free, here in New York State anyway.

And you don't
want people to get the idea that it's a free country.



I don't know that the "it's a free country" platitude dissuades me from
thinking that this is a good idea, especially when you look at accident
and injury statistics in states that have done it already. I guess
you're not in favor of automobile licensing either? After all, I
suppose, it's anyone's free choice to get onto a crowded road they know
is populated by tons of dangerous uneucated maniacs.....every man for
himself, why would the government have any interest in stepping on my
freedom by insisting that I learn to drive and get tested before I get
behind the wheel? I guess I must be some kind of communist.

Sounds to me like some people just think they're too good to take the
course and just don't want to be bothered...tough.

richforman

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