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#21
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New Jersey operator licensing
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#22
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New Jersey operator licensing
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#23
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New Jersey operator licensing
Jasper Windvane wrote: Let me see if I have this right ;;; you think the government should require us to get a license to sail our boats. The same government that can't control the borders, that allows illegal tresspassing into our county by people from some **** ass crap hole like Mexico. That government is now going to tell us how to sail our boats! F..k this ,,,, New Jersey is a ********. A corrupt ********. Anyone who thinks that sailors need licenses it NUTS! F'king NUTS. You need to go back up in that airplane. This time bring some oxygen with you. What is the downside of this? I'm all for it. (Well like you say, you don't know how effectively it can possibly be enforced, but the idea is still good.) Us PWC'ers have been the first segment of boating to be subject to mandatory education requirements over the last five or six years or so, we have been all for it from the beginning, and you should track the statistics about how boating and pwc accidents and injuries have declined in states that have instituted these kind of laws. Seems like a no-brainer to me that one should be trained and licensed to drive a boat just like for a car. Too easy for people to hop onto a boat a make trouble for themselves and others without any knowledge of the laws, safety procedures, anything. Less so for sailboats maybe because they require more skills, experience, and training just to operatie in the first place, but that doesn't mean they should be arbitrarily exempted - in fact, it seems to me that it would suggest that it's not really any additional burden for sailors because they're probably getting educated and trained before they hit the water anyway. richforman |
#24
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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New Jersey operator licensing
I am not an advocate of
recreational boat licensing... I have however, encountered many people on the water (one which put a hole in my boat) who I wish had either been kept off or had their behavior modified by such a program. Sounds like a big contradiction to me there! I think mandatory training and certification (i.e. licensing) is the perfect solution for the problem you just agreed is so prevalent...idiots or ignorant boaters on the water, and the danger and damage they can cause themselves and others. I think if you examine accident and injury statistics in states that have already started with laws like these, you'd have to agree that it's already very beneficial, unless you're stuck on the personal inconvenience you'd suffer by "sitting through the course." Actually the courses in my experience are fairly fun and pleasant, and I would think absolutely everyone, no matter how experienced they are, could possibly learn something from them here and there richforman |
#25
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New Jersey operator licensing
Roger, I spent one of the nicest years of my life in NJ also... I think it
was a Friday night! PSSSSSSS ... where do you think the money for the license is going to go? For boating safety? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo,,, right in some corrupt pocket. What are you thinking? Are you entirely crazy? "Roger Long" wrote in message news Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I spent one of the nicest years of my life in NJ. I just don't have any boating plans for south of Cape Cod. My interest is to the north and east. -- Roger Long "Armond Perretta" wrote in message . .. Roger Long wrote: ... (can't think of any reason I would ever go to New Jersey, let alone stay there the triggering 90 days) ... Can't think of any reason you'd get invited. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.comcast.net |
#26
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New Jersey operator licensing
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#27
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New Jersey operator licensing
wrote
Sounds like a big contradiction to me there! Of course it's a big contradiction. It's the basic tension between freedom and order that society struggles with all the time. Licensing will come as much because large numbers of people behave irresponsibly as because the government is power hungry. -- Roger Long |
#28
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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New Jersey operator licensing
Roger Long wrote:
Licensing will come as much because large numbers of people behave irresponsibly as because the government is power hungry. This cynic agrees with you. That doesn't make it a good thing. At some point in the future, you will need a license to walk in the woods, dogs will be illegal, and the average person will be appalled at the primitive & barbaric notion that citizens were once upon a time allowed to own firearms. Sailing without a license??!? Ha! Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
#29
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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New Jersey operator licensing
News F2,3,4,5,................... the last time I checked; Europe SUCKED!
Take a look at France ,,,,,,,,, lovely place ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, SUCKS! As for the rest of the "Continent" ................ why do you think the founding fathers wanted independence? Answer: Europe SUCKS! ===================== "News f2s" wrote in message ... wrote in message ps.com... Roger Long wrote: ... As a just (self) grounded private pilot, it does seem strange to go out and do something that involves just as much responsibility and requires just as much skill (at least to do safely) with out all the training and oversight involved in flying aircraft. Boat licensing is probably overdue but I still hate to see it coming up over the horizon. Your premise is wrong. Boating is far easier to do safely than flying. Exactly. Consider the docking manouevre; off centre at 3kts is very different from being off centre at 100kts. Consider the effects of bad weather against fuel planning; running out of fuel because you couldn't get into a port is not a consideration of a boat. Consider incapacitated crew . . . and so on. Back to Roger's point. European practice on licencing is interesting. Great Britain probably has the most challenging sailing conditions in Europe, and has no governmental requirement for licencing or insuring leisure sailors. Nor do vessels used solely for leisure have to be registered. Some marinas insist on vessels having third party insurance, and some charterers want to see competence certificates. These are commercial arrangements only. Over the rest of Europe and in the Mediterranean, certificates of competence *and* third party insurance are governmental requirements for anyone in charge of any vessel, with some exceptions in some countries for small dinghies. These countries have better weather factors, weaker tides (if any), fewer people on the water, in fact, fewer reasons overall for needing licencing (with the exception of controlling traffic on some inland waterways, which are pretty crowded). However, most of these countries had a bureaucratic infrastructure designed to handle commercial traffic, and automatically applied commercial controls to leisure sailing, which was a trivial activity immediately post war (unlike Britain). Of course, once bureaucrats have a task, they're reluctant to face redundancy, preferring instead to argue the need for increased control . . . My views? The most serious and frequent leisure accidents arise from small high speed vessels. I don't mind if people wish to risk injuring themselves, but third parties need to be protected. Governmental intervention is not effective unless it is policed, and licencing does not prevent road accidents. I'd like to go the insurance route. Any vessel with an energy content equivalent to 10kts on 16ft should be third party insured. Probably best implemented by saying 'anything that can do more than 10kts, or is longer than 16' is to carry third party insurance.' That may require boat registration if the insurance is attached to the vessel, and if the insurance is attached to the driver, insurance companies would probably discount insurance to those with suitable certificates. Policing? Random checks at launching points. Impound vessels not covered by insurance. Got that off my chest, I feel better now. -- JimB http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/ for opinions comparing Greek cruising areas |
#30
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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New Jersey operator licensing
DSK wrote:
wrote: What is the downside of this? I'm all for it. Well, sure. You're already stuck having to take classs and get a license. .... Us PWC'ers have been the first segment of boating to be subject to mandatory education requirements over the last five or six years or so, we have been all for it from the beginning, Not all PWCers are "all for it" Well, the pwc'ing COMMUNITY at large is all for it and has been ever since I"ve been a part of that community for that last nine years or so. PWC rights advocacy groups and IMO all of us more responsible, informed, thinking riders, have advocated and supported, mandatory education and certification, for ALL boaters as long as I've been involved, and it seems like an excellent idea to me. and there are still a lot of jetski drivers who operate their boats dangerously & offensively. Yes, and operators of other size and shape power boats too. That is why it seems look a great idea to try to guarantee that anyone driving one has at least been instructed in the basics. Some do it even after taking classes & getting licensed, seems like they consider it part of the fun. The reason why PWC's were the first to be regulated & to have a license required was due to the large number of incidents wherein PWC drivers injured others. Injuring yourself is not the state's business IMHO. I don't follow your thinking at all. Power boaters with bigger boats than pwc's can certainly do lots of damage to others and the properties of others as well as to themselves, and often do. (And to their families and passengers.) .... it seems to me that it would suggest that it's not really any additional burden for sailors because they're probably getting educated and trained before they hit the water anyway. Yeah, let's just go ahead and have the gov't burden them with classes & licensing req'ments etc etc, after all they can't possibly harm anybody else at 5 knots. I don't really see what the big burden is. The class is 8 hours and free, here in New York State anyway. And you don't want people to get the idea that it's a free country. I don't know that the "it's a free country" platitude dissuades me from thinking that this is a good idea, especially when you look at accident and injury statistics in states that have done it already. I guess you're not in favor of automobile licensing either? After all, I suppose, it's anyone's free choice to get onto a crowded road they know is populated by tons of dangerous uneucated maniacs.....every man for himself, why would the government have any interest in stepping on my freedom by insisting that I learn to drive and get tested before I get behind the wheel? I guess I must be some kind of communist. Sounds to me like some people just think they're too good to take the course and just don't want to be bothered...tough. richforman |
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